PMDG and Prepar3D - RR speaks up

[mutley 4,487]

Over on AVSIM is Captain Randazzo's official statement 
 

 

 

 

We have intentionally been killing off discussion on this topic not because we don't want to tell you what we are thinking- but because we have not been able to get clear direction from some key players in the decision making process- and without that information we are unable to make a decision.  Any discussion here in the forum is- to be blunt, worthless to the actual decision making process.

The whole story is here.. http://forum.avsim.net/topic/426627-a-few-notes-regarding-pmdgs-position-on-p3d-development/

[jaydor 345]

Well that puts the record straight.  Right out of the horses mouth as they say.

 

But I expect some sim-room lawyer will misinterpret and mouth off their own suppositions.  

 

So I apologise, if I have ever in the past have stated bumf information.. 

[britfrog 180]

I understand his stance perfectly but must wonder how long it takes lawyers to read a eula? then talk to two clients ? I suppose like uk lawyers the longer they take the more they earn !

however from my experience most lawyers are incapable of reading at normal speeds

 

[Christopher Low 63]

This litigation culture that permeates society these days will be the downfall of human civilisation.

[Kevin Firth 114]

We're not doomed yet. PMDG have clearly listened, and reading between the lines are making moves to try to sort things out between Boeing, themselves and LM. I've always admired RSR's communication and grasp of issues, so I for one have my fingers crossed for him very tightly on this one. Nuff said.....

[brett 2,283]

I guess I wasn't too far off on thinking that Boeing might be the 'rock under the wheel' in this situation or at least that's what I got from reading this statement. Then again, I am only one of the  "Forum Lawyer's" that he detests so much.    

[M.I.B. 39]

Even if it never happens....PMDG is [fortunately] not the only developer of high quality simulations...and [fortunately], P3D is not the only sim to go for in the future...oops, another lawyer

[mutley 4,487]

Well said Dorel! 

[jaydor 345]

The typewriter was replaced by the computer, so PMDG will one day be replaced..

[allardjd 1,853]

After reading the linked piece at AVSIM I guess I have a couple of observations...

----------------------------------------------------------

1- Companies always act in what they perceive to be their own best interests at any given time, which is a right and proper thing for them to do. In a publicly traded company (I'm not sure whether PMDG is or not) executives who do not do that risk prosecution. Anyone who thinks that the interests of a company's customers comes before the interests of the shareholders or private owners is naive at best. With an understanding of that, public statements by company officials and spokespersons should be taken with a grain of salt.

As it happens, sometimes what is best for the customers IS best for the company, to the extent that their sales volume, customer good will and reputation in the market are important to them. In those cases, if they are astute enough to comprehend it and act accordingly, everybody wins except their competitors. I won't speculate at this point whether the interests of the FS community and those of PMDG line up or not. I hope they do, and I hope they come to that conclusion at some point.

Again, they are acting in their own interest and the author's use of the word "nuanced" (read as carefully chosen weasel-words, pretending to be facts) alludes to that. They will tell you what they believe will work in their best interest at the time. Does anyone remember some of the pronouncements of a certain Joshua Howard a couple of years ago when he was beating the drum that Microsoft Flight was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and would not leave the serious flight simmers out in the cold? I don't mean to paint Mr. Randazzo, the PMDG exec who posted at AVSIM, with the same black brush as Joshua, but it's important to remember that in this case, as in that one, the timing and content of public statements by companies are carefully chosen to serve what they believe is best for them. Mr. Randazzo's posting was surely made with the best interests of PMDG in mind. Don't assume it is completely objective or complete.

In this case, it seems to me that there is an element of damage control, or perhaps more accurately, rumour control. For whatever reason, that statement at this time was deemed necessary by PMDG, perhaps to mitigate perceived ill will and damage to their reputation amongst the flight sim community from the ongoing speculation about their actions and motives with respect to P3D. We are certainly a part of their customer base, but unlike most FS Add-On developers, we are not the most important part of it. They have a corporate customer base as well and I suspect the revenue from that segment far outweighs what we spend with them.

----------------------------------------------------------

2- It seems difficult to avoid the fact that the writer communicates a certain disdain for for flight simmers and for their interest in PMDG's position with respect to P3D. In that respect, I am reminded of some of the more disparaging comments by Mr. Howard about the flight sim community after it became clear that Microsoft Flight was not to be FS 11 by another name.

There seems to be a desire at PMDG for us to cease and desist discussing and speculating about the PMDG/P3D situation. The thread he posted in remains closed and he clearly wishes we'd all shut up in other venues too and sit on our hands and wait for them to make up their minds which way to go. He ALMOST says that.

He says he doesn't want, "...a Forum Lawyer expose on this topic." Well, he is able to prevent that at AVSIM, with the help of Mr. Allenwhatever who owns the site, but not here and probably not on other flight sim sites. I'll continue to speculate and voice opinions here and I hope those who are reading this will too.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and human nature abhors an information vacuum. That is what most of us who have been speculating about PMDG's attitude toward P3D have been trying to do - fill an information vacuum that PMDG created. OK, now we have a statement to chew on and chew we will.

Speaking personally, I resent being told, figuratively if not literally, to sit down and shut up and that our opinions and desires in this are unimportant. While I agree that we don't rightfully have a seat at the decision-making table, I don't accept that we don't have a right to an opinion and the right to express that opinion publicly. If that pains him and PMDG - well, life's tough.

----------------------------------------------------------

I consider the future prospects of P3D to be important to this community. I also believe PMDG's products to be among the finest, if not THE finest, add-ons available for FS at this time. I'm concerned about even the possibility that one will not play with the other, for whatever reason, and I intend to continue to observe, discuss that and voice my opinions on it.

John

[brett 2,283]

John said>Speaking personally, I resent being told, figuratively if not literally, to sit down and shut up and that our opinions and desires in this are unimportant. While I agree that we don't rightfully have a seat at the decision-making table, I don't accept that we don't have a right to an opinion and the right to express that opinion publicly. If that pains him and PMDG - well, life's tough.

 

+1

 

Speculation-The view is different when looking down vs. looking up.   

[britfrog 180]

After reading the linked piece at AVSIM I guess I have a couple of observations...

----------------------------------------------------------

1- Companies always act in what they perceive to be their own best interests at any given time, which is a right and proper thing for them to do. In a publicly traded company (I'm not sure whether PMDG is or not) executives who do not do that risk prosecution. Anyone who thinks that the interests of a company's customers comes before the interests of the shareholders or private owners is naive at best. With an understanding of that, public statements by company officials and spokespersons should be taken with a grain of salt.

As it happens, sometimes what is best for the customers IS best for the company, to the extent that their sales volume, customer good will and reputation in the market are important to them. In those cases, if they are astute enough to comprehend it and act accordingly, everybody wins except their competitors. I won't speculate at this point whether the interests of the FS community and those of PMDG line up or not. I hope they do, and I hope they come to that conclusion at some point.

Again, they are acting in their own interest and the author's use of the word "nuanced" (read as carefully chosen weasel-words, pretending to be facts) alludes to that. They will tell you what they believe will work in their best interest at the time. Does anyone remember some of the pronouncements of a certain Joshua Howard a couple of years ago when he was beating the drum that Microsoft Flight was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and would not leave the serious flight simmers out in the cold? I don't mean to paint Mr. Randazzo, the PMDG exec who posted at AVSIM, with the same black brush as Joshua, but it's important to remember that in this case, as in that one, the timing and content of public statements by companies are carefully chosen to serve what they believe is best for them. Mr. Randazzo's posting was surely made with the best interests of PMDG in mind. Don't assume it is completely objective or complete.

In this case, it seems to me that there is an element of damage control, or perhaps more accurately, rumour control. For whatever reason, that statement at this time was deemed necessary by PMDG, perhaps to mitigate perceived ill will and damage to their reputation amongst the flight sim community from the ongoing speculation about their actions and motives with respect to P3D. We are certainly a part of their customer base, but unlike most FS Add-On developers, we are not the most important part of it. They have a corporate customer base as well and I suspect the revenue from that segment far outweighs what we spend with them.

----------------------------------------------------------

2- It seems difficult to avoid the fact that the writer communicates a certain disdain for for flight simmers and for their interest in PMDG's position with respect to P3D. In that respect, I am reminded of some of the more disparaging comments by Mr. Howard about the flight sim community after it became clear that Microsoft Flight was not to be FS 11 by another name.

There seems to be a desire at PMDG for us to cease and desist discussing and speculating about the PMDG/P3D situation. The thread he posted in remains closed and he clearly wishes we'd all shut up in other venues too and sit on our hands and wait for them to make up their minds which way to go. He ALMOST says that.

He says he doesn't want, "...a Forum Lawyer expose on this topic." Well, he is able to prevent that at AVSIM, with the help of Mr. Allenwhatever who owns the site, but not here and probably not on other flight sim sites. I'll continue to speculate and voice opinions here and I hope those who are reading this will too.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and human nature abhors an information vacuum. That is what most of us who have been speculating about PMDG's attitude toward P3D have been trying to do - fill an information vacuum that PMDG created. OK, now we have a statement to chew on and chew we will.

Speaking personally, I resent being told, figuratively if not literally, to sit down and shut up and that our opinions and desires in this are unimportant. While I agree that we don't rightfully have a seat at the decision-making table, I don't accept that we don't have a right to an opinion and the right to express that opinion publicly. If that pains him and PMDG - well, life's tough.

----------------------------------------------------------

I consider the future prospects of P3D to be important to this community. I also believe PMDG's products to be among the finest, if not THE finest, add-ons available for FS at this time. I'm concerned about even the possibility that one will not play with the other, for whatever reason, and I intend to continue to observe, discuss that and voice my opinions on it.

John

 

I have to agree with all your thoughts here John

 

and also dislike his attitude towards us his customers I think he perceives that all simmers are kiddies with the milk still around their mouth when in actual fact my impression of simmers is that the vast majority are of a mature age, he needs to remember that when he next opens his cake hole.

I also see a certain similarity  between him and a certain JV in the disdainful manner in which they treat their customers.

 

[jaydor 345]

RSR's latest on Avsome

 

Gents-

 

1) I am closing this thread because the topic starter and a half dozen others failed to sign their posts as we require here.  Normally I would just make this post evaporate- but can you imagine the conspiracy theory nut-wigs if I did? 

 

2) Someone posited that we are somehow caught up in some deal between Boeing and LM.  Uhm.  No.  (But that theory does get the award for "Most Entertaining Ridiculous Theory Seen This Week" in the PMDG forum!)

 

3) Don't get caught up in the forum lawyering over the word "entertainment."  This is about liability protection for PMDG, protection of our upcoming commercial product line's economic viability, ensuring the appropriate license agreements and contracts are in place between PMDG and Boeing to allow us to do what we are planning, and making certain we have a clear understanding on some issues that our legal counsel feels are "murky" in the P3D EULA.

 

I have seen some really cry-baby garbage in this forum the past few days- and we are starting to hand out penalty box time for the trolls and inciters.  If you take a moment and read my post- it should be obvious to you that we are working toward a P3D solution- but the final details on it cannot be known until... well... the (blood-sucking, fun-killing) lawyers have their way with it.

 

If you don't like that we run PMDG as a business- then please see yourself to the exit...

 

If you are excited about P3Dv2- then great.  So are we! 

 

If you feel compelled to be a whinging crying complaining troll- please...  Go elsewhere- nobody here is interested in your point of view.  (Sorry to validate your feelings about your own inadequacy- but hey- someone had to do it...)   

                  ^^^^^^^^^^^

Note:  Yes- sarcasm.

[Kevin Firth 114]

I also see a certain similarity between him and a certain JV in the disdainful manner in which they treat their customers.

I think RSR is funny about his put downs, I'd pay money to hear him live . (can't say the same about certain others!)

[allardjd 1,853]

...latest on Avsome

 

 

Now that's funny!

 

John

[allardjd 1,853]

I do have to point out that the linked post at the top of this thread is under the PMDG Commercial Support forum at AVSIM.  Presumably PMDG is paying the bill to have a permanent, official point of presence there.  Given that, they have a right to set and enforce the rules, close or hide threads, edit or delete content, suspend or ban users, etc.  I may not agree with everything they say and do, but I have to acknowledge their right to do that within the support forum they are paying the freight on.

 

John