brett 2,284 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Can anyone help this poor bush pilot out. I got the Dash 8 recently and knew enough to get her up and flying, it's a great flier, but knew I would have to read through everything so in I went. I am up to the extra downloadable tutorial written by some RW pilot, my eyes are burning, my brain is smoking and I have all the previous manuals leaking out of my ears. Q; I see when to turn on the AC generators during the Captains originating checks but for the life of me can't find when to turn them off. I mostly understand everything about using external power or both that and the APU on standby generator+bleed and needing to turn the batteries off when on external power. I think I am also confused about how the power is being used because of how far down the check the AC generators go on. When the aircraft is first entered, lets say the external power and APU is off, everything is running off the batteries right? Then why would you at that point also have the DC generators switched on, what are they doing and where along the line does everything turn to AC power vs DC power. When your flying the batteries stay on although the bus tie(whatever that does) is turned off. Any help for the layman is much appreciated. Other than this I think this plane is pretty cool but it sure keeps you awful busy. What, Clearance is only giving me 20 minutes before taxi ....pause sim. Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Always gotta remember that in the RW you're only doing (roughly, but less than) half of the work. Except the walkaround - that's the first officer's job come rain or shine. The workload is an issue I have with all simulations for the complex aircraft. I tried Voice Commander - on the PMDG 737. I don't think it's available yet for the Dash. It helps big time because the extra switching is being done for you. I don't use the voice part, just the "button" version. Works a treat. Sorry I can't load and try the Dash for you with respect to your question. I'm pretty pressed for time as I'm out of here Saturday morning for a week. I'll take the Crapple with me so I can keep an eye on the MH shenanigans, but no flying. All I can say is that I've flown the Dash for a few hours. Probably been through that checklist five to ten times. I cannot recall there being a problem with power switching. Why do I think I'm starting on ground power, then switching to onboard at pushback? Been a month or so - memory is weak. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks for the input March. Supposedly RW pilots, when using the ground power unit, switch all batteries off so there is no possibility of a short or to have a reverse draw due to a bad ground unit. Also they sometimes will, at the same time, run the APU and it's generator which will be on standby in case the external unit fails or if disconnected it will then engage automatically. The APU bleed air also helps on a hot day until ready for pushback and then at least one(right side) engine is started to use its built-in DC generator. The external unit can then be disconnected. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can't say for that specific AC, but on larger planes it's not uncommon to have rectifiers/inverters to make AC from DC and vice versa. Also, most, but not all of the AC stuff is typically more for creature comfort items and for some of the more esoteric avionics stuff (I think some of it still uses 400 Hz AC as well as the more common 60 Hz). Heavily loaded motors are more likely to be AC, particularly those that must be run continuously - intermittently operated motors are more likely to be DC. Not sure of the relative capacities of the two kinds of generators on those aircraft, but suspect that the AC generators are probably the big dogs and carry all the AC load and also provide the bulk of the DC for normal flight operations through rectifiers. The DC generators, particularly from the APU are more likely sized for the cold and dark bootstrapping operations or for loads that are considered as backup or emergency items. If I had to guess, and it would be a guess, I'd say the AC generators are probably tripped after the heavy electrical loads (e.g. electric-driven hydraulic pumps) are shut down or switched to ground power, not too long before the engines are shut down. I think the relays/breakers that transfer loads from on-board to ground power are break-before-make types so there is no concern about synchronization or cross-connecting. The foregoing is mostly guesswork but not completely a stab in the dark either. I'm probably wrong on some of the points. John Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks John, I will have to check if they automatically trip off when adding external power. I think I also need to re-read everything a few times until it finally sinks in less than absorbent brain. Link to post Share on other sites
hifly 925 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 :hat:To you Brett for getting that far into the Dash 80. I got it, looked at the manual and lost the will to live. I'm sure if I had more time I could get my head around it. In the meantime I'll stick to steam gauge classics, so much simpler. I go far With a VOR And ADF Is OK for Geoff An FMC Is not for me And GPS I couldn't care less But old steam gauges From bygone ages Makes a pilot Earn his wages God I need a life. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Haha, love the poem. I'm a GA flyer at heart and like the steam gauges better than the glass panels, even in smaller planes. With my small laptop they are easier to read at a glance, this planes glass panels actually are pretty readable on my rig so that's a plus. When I first got this aircraft I was blown away with the manuals and was thinking I would never be able to figure it all out. On the other hand I do like a challenge, the Dash 8 manuals are pretty extensive but well written. Once you get through reading it all, the information on the procedures starts getting smaller because it is all repetitive. In a nutshell you start with prepping the aircrafts switch positions, there are a lot but it is interesting to learn how an aircraft really works, start up is easy enough and only the taxi and descent seems like the busiest time. The FMS is the hardest, so far for me, but is kind of like learning how to set a new clock, press this than press that, press that then press this. It will come to me in time, it has some pretty cool features if only I could remember them. For the first time, I think I am going to print this stuff up for reference as I fly because it is a doozy of a plane. You are already flying the default style passenger planes so already know most of the stuff, this just adds some switches for you to use. I recommend Froggles videos for a good look how easy it can be. Hang in there with it Geoff, if I can learn it over time, then it should be a breeze for you. Link to post Share on other sites
hifly 925 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks buddy, I will hang in there and get that baby in the air. At the moment I'm so busy with work that come the evening when I do my flying I'm too knac tired to wade through the manual. If you are getting into the heavier stuff I can recommend the Connie if you like slow and high. She's a sweetie. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 ........ I can recommend the Connie if you like slow and high. If you your to tired to read the manuals then just fly it like ya stole it. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 There's a guy in our flight sim club who used to re-possess airplanes for a living. He tells some pretty good stories, including filching a Mooney that was standing in a large puddle of engine oil. The mechanics at the FBO assured him it was not from that plane so he took it but flew to the next nearest airport and landed to get it checked out real soon. It turns out they were right - the Mooney was not leaking anything. John Link to post Share on other sites
hifly 925 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 ........ I can recommend the Connie if you like slow and high. If you your to tired to read the manuals then just fly it like ya stole it. u p I did a couple of circuits and bumps. The circuits were ok, the bumps were... b m y. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 This plane has some stiff gear, you have to fly it on to the runway. It's hard to get used to for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 In the real world, there was a run of gear collapse incidents involving the Dash-8. It seems to have quieted down lately. I don't know if they made any modifications to prevent it or not. John Link to post Share on other sites
Ruzzo 59 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 This plane has some stiff gear, you have to fly it on to the runway. It's hard to get used to for sure. Yep it does. Every real world landing has been.. hard. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 In the real world, there was a run of gear collapse incidents involving the Dash-8. It seems to have quieted down lately. I don't know if they made any modifications to prevent it or not. John Maybe they fired the inept pilots. Link to post Share on other sites
hifly 925 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thing is it looks so flimsy, pilots call it the stick insect. Fart and you'd have to adjust the trim. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Majestic did make an ugly plane look nice though. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 If you're running a regional or commuter airline, they look beautiful on the bottom line. DHC built exactly the right airplane at exactly the right time and made a boatload of money on it. John Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 How true, right place at the right time. I wonder what planes were left in the dust because of it. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 I think mainly the ATRs and maybe some of the Embrear models. John Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Thanks John. I would figure that the Embraer jet models weren't as economically feasible as the turboprops. The ATR's look like healthier Dash 8's but have the weird rear passenger load. Link to post Share on other sites
stu7708 244 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 In the real world, there was a run of gear collapse incidents involving the Dash-8. It seems to have quieted down lately. I don't know if they made any modifications to prevent it or not. John Maybe they fired the inept pilots. Scandinavian, that had a fair share of those gear collapses on the Dash-8 took another route... the stopped flying with them Here are a 2 out 3 spectacular landings that SAS suffered in a period of just 2 months Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 There are still a lot of them in service and the problems seems to have gone away. John Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I might be mistaken but it looked like in both video's that the pilots tried to land on the left wheels first, you can see the right wing come up both times. I wonder if the right side never locked into place, both vid's show the right side collapse. Link to post Share on other sites
hifly 925 Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 If the airlines sued, Bombardier wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Link to post Share on other sites
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