allardjd 1,853 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 ...but they don't have FMCs, and adding missing waypoints "on the fly" is not an option. They are stuck with the FSX database of navaids, waypoints, runways, etc. I'm not criticizing you or what you did, just wondering if it gives you any insight into flying realistic IFR in that class of AC, i.e. decent performance, but no FMC? John Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hmmmm. That's really not so bad. If you're forced to use the FSX database, use the FSX ATC. Call it identical (except for speed) to the Cessna Skylane. Once you have to pre-plan the route ATC takes over and vectors you to the active when you're close to the airport. The two unknowns are the departure and arrival runways. The arrival runway can change mid flight if the flight is long enough. Planning with something like SimBrief gives you departure and arrival runways in realtime from real weather info. However, you are reliant on the winds remaining steady throughout the flight or you go through the same routine as the big boys (without assistance from company operations staff). At least with a FMC you can plug in the critical vertical and horizontal reference data quite quickly as long as you have the charts available (and the waypoints match what's in your airac database). Basically, FSX is totally incapable of offering up a "realistic" IFR experience because so much of the infrastructure is missing. Starting with assistance in the cockpit and carrying through all of the "normal" to and fro between ground assets and the aircraft. You're actually better off in the Cessna Skylane for many reasons starting with a lot more time and lower altitudes. You don't need as much outside assistance. I get annoyed with RC simply because it is so cumbersome to refuse/modify a routing and/or talk to ATC. There's so much "missing" from the RW experience. What I haven't tried is the Radar Contact assistance feature where you can have the co-pilot do the flying, or the radios, etc. That could be a real asset. I'll get to it sometime between Hamilton and Victoria. I'm sort of thinking I should go back to what I know - Beavers Rule! Think about it. Runways anywhere there's water, no ATC, big round engine. Probably be bored to tears. There's a turbine Otter winding down at the end of my dock as I write this. I love the smell of Jet-A in the morning, but I also love the whuppity, whuppity, of a P&W at idle as the endless supply of Beavers visit Maple Bay. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 what about VOXATC is that anymore realistic in terms of how it controls you? I spoke with bob on the phone before they had the Steam update, he gave the impression that this was as realistic as it gets, but I have also read that its perfect for GA which would siut me, not sure I want to be using voice ATC all the time though. I am guessing that the FSX ATC may well work better as it was there from the beginning at will run better with the old data. Do all these things we install like ORBX and the various airport makers change things for FSX ATC? I am guessing if I install an ORBX airfield it will include any changes that have happened since FSX came out. I have never used an FMC I always find that they look like they are going to make things very complicated, maybe I should try one if there is an AC out there that comes with a built in tutorial flight. I have a B1900D and I think that has a simplified version but I never switch it on, coward... Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 VoxATC is not for me. I live on a boat - read "very small environment" and my other half would object, I'm sure. The FMC actually simplifies things, once you get over the programming learning curve. I have two aircraft equipped with a FMC, the PMDG 737NGX and the Majestic Dash 8. Of the two, I far prefer the Boeing FMC. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 You see I really dont get excited by the heavies, I love to see them but I dont find them much of a pull in FSX, so if I want to learn about FMC whats my best options, what smaller aircraft if any use them? Is the one in my Caranado B1900D similar to what you get in other stuff? I also love props/turbo props etc but dont get excited by jets.....I remember in the Army I always loved being in the Hercules but never got excited by the smaller fighters.... I think I like aircraft that dont have all the different 'systems' like PMDG, I enjoy my little A2A C172 but may look for something like Dash 8, my biggest issue is time, if only get a hour and a half flying window I dont want to spend half of it prepping the aircraft. I just looked at the B1900D, that comes with a FMS, so I guess that is slightly different to a FMC? I think I will stick with FSX ATC, it has its issues but it works and was made obviously at the same time as the sim. Now that you have given me that 'rule of 3' for the descent I feel that I can put myself where I need to be at approximately the right time. I reckon waking up on a boat with a fantastic back yard must be a very satisfying place to be..... Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,283 Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I am not a fan of the biggies either Wayne but I do enjoy the Majestic(Q400) Dash8. For me as a first timer, the FMC took awhile to learn just reading the supplied info but the airline2sim videos helped put it into perspective for me. One nice thing about the FMC is that it can compute your point(time) of descent and even show you your constantly changing VS should you need to make pitch adjustments. I do wish it would let you import a flightplan but with time you can do it pretty fast. If time is an issue the planning can be done beforehand. When time is an issue I skip the fancy PAX, weight and fuel to Vrefs and just use kentucky windage but it can bite you sometimes, no big deal when carrying sim passengers. Although a predominantly a GA flier, it does give me the feeling like I at least touched upon the world of commercial aviation. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks Brett, does the Dash come with a fair bit of info? Thats always the downside with Caranado, the lack of info..I love flying the small stuff but the Dash looks like a nice size to use. The only issue I would have is that the Majestic wont work with AH so I may have to see if there is another version that is any good. Currently I will pick a job and then do a flightplan, save it ready in Plan-G folder. Then once I have time I will accept and fly the job. Is the Dash good for short 1-2 hour flights? I wonder if there is an ATR that is of a good standard too. Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I also love props/turbo props etc but dont get excited by jets.....I remember in the Army I always loved being in the Hercules but never got excited by the smaller fighters.... clip........... Wayne @Wayne - If you like the Herky-bird, head on over to "Captain Sim" and collect their version: C130E - see: http://www.captainsim.com/products/c131/- there's a free demo available. I use it in AH for the AI pilots to keep the coffers full. Hauls 32740 lbs with full fuel (full fuel is a necessity with brain-dead AI Pilots). Lot's of fun to fly yourself, too. Be cautious of the Dash-8. it's got a steeper learning curve than the PMDG 737NGX and is far more like flying a jet than a prop plane. There is fabulous documentation for the Majestic version and also a superb set of (payware) video "how to" documentation by Airline2Sim - see: http://www.airline2sim.com/ The FMC (Flight Management Computer) is part of the FMS (Flight Managenent System). The other components of an FMS include engine management, autopilot, and navigation equipment. I'm afraid I am not familiar with the B1900 but I did have a look at their website and it sure looks like there's a FMC (mfg by Universal) incorporated into the lower panel. How it interfaces with the FMS, I'm not sure, but I'll bet it's a pretty sophisticated system. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks March that looks like a good addition off to work now nut will have a good look later. The Dash is good but like I said it wont work with AH so not really any good to me..... Was playing with the B1900's FMC yesterday, I couldnt work out how to change my altitude, it seemed to want to stay at the flightplan altitude and Caranado dont give away much info.. Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Godden 934 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Wayne, If you want a Dash 8 for AH, Premier Aircraft Design have a range of 100, 200, 300, and 400 series freeware models. The models are good, though you will have to live with a typical freeware cockpit.....that's not to say they are bad, just don't expect Carenado quality. They also have a great range of other aircraft. I'm not sure if you already have it, but the payware RAZBAM Metroliner III is another great turboprop for AH. Cheers Andrew Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks Andrew, will look at these and see what they are like... Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Coffee 2,030 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks March that looks like a good addition off to work now nut will have a good look later. The Dash is good but like I said it wont work with AH so not really any good to me..... Was playing with the B1900's FMC yesterday, I couldnt work out how to change my altitude, it seemed to want to stay at the flightplan altitude and Caranado dont give away much info.. Wayne Erm...whu? I use the Majestic Dash8 in Airhauler. Who says it won't work, and why? It is my most complicated aircraft, so I don't personally fly it much but my AI pilots make Bank with it. When I fly it I definitely don't mess with the FMC/FMS/whatever. I have figured out how to get it started, and how not to flip it on take off, and just fly it GA style using FSX flight planner. OH, and I agree with Andrew, Razbam Metroliner is a great AH turboprop hauler. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Erm...whu? I use the Majestic Dash8 in Airhauler. Who says it won't work, and why? http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20763&KW=majestic&title=will-majestic-dash-8-work-in-ah http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=23836&KW=majestic&title=majestic-dash8-400-ah-issue http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22307&title=ah-and-the-majestic-q400 From Slopey (AH Developer) on 13 May, 2015 "There's nothing AH can do to be able to use the Dash 8. It uses its own flight engine, outside of FSX, so there's no way for AH to get any of the data as they don't expose it into FSX. Majestic need to do that, not me." You can use it for your AI and there are some workarounds that some folks claim will kind'a, sort'a let you use it yourself in AH, but if they work at all, they're not pretty. This is all the result of Majestic going outside FSX to run the flight dynamics. AH uses FSUIPC to query FSX for flight parameters - the lights are on but nobody's home when it's the Majestic that's running. FSX, and thus AH, has no idea what the AC is doing. John Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 clip..... FSX, and thus AH, has no idea what the AC is doing. John Sounds like the perfect a/c for moving a load of that BC bud. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Coffee 2,030 Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Erm...whu? I use the Majestic Dash8 in Airhauler. Who says it won't work, and why? http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20763&KW=majestic&title=will-majestic-dash-8-work-in-ah http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=23836&KW=majestic&title=majestic-dash8-400-ah-issue http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22307&title=ah-and-the-majestic-q400 From Slopey (AH Developer) on 13 May, 2015 "There's nothing AH can do to be able to use the Dash 8. It uses its own flight engine, outside of FSX, so there's no way for AH to get any of the data as they don't expose it into FSX. Majestic need to do that, not me." You can use it for your AI and there are some workarounds that some folks claim will kind'a, sort'a let you use it yourself in AH, but if they work at all, they're not pretty. This is all the result of Majestic going outside FSX to run the flight dynamics. AH uses FSUIPC to query FSX for flight parameters - the lights are on but nobody's home when it's the Majestic that's running. FSX, and thus AH, has no idea what the AC is doing. John Yep, verified that I must not have actually hauled a job in this bird. I have repositioned it between airports before for sure, but I guess it ended up right where it started in AH...for that is where it ended up on a flight from San Jose, Ca. to Napa tonight...no bongs, no Ah messages...just a quiet flight to Napa, then found the plane back at KSJC when I shut down and rechecked AH. Sent an AI pilot back to Napa with the cargo, and will sell the bird tomorrow...I don't want an AH bird in my fleet I can't use. Dang. Thanks for straightening me out on this one John, and Wain for mentioning it in the first place. Cheers. Matt. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 It's a darned shame too. That's a great piece of work by Majestic but taking it outside FSX means any add-on that uses FSUIPC to derive anything from the aircraft is locked out. One of Allard's Laws of Power Plant Maintenance (most of which were shamelessly stolen from others) says that every solution creates a new problem. John Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Coffee 2,030 Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Sort of like undertaking a repair on a boat, every time you start tearing into a project, 2 more items needing repair rear their ugly head. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks to everyone for your input, what started as a request for info regarding Approach Plates has ended with lots of knowledge being past around. However thanks to March and his 'Rule of 3' (which I have tried and ended up roughly where I wanted) I believe I dont really need the plates now. I also tried a similar flight but took more time in the planning, going around the peaks and up a valley to the airfield of choice, keeping a lower altitude and landing was achieved a lot easier than having to drop like a rock. So here are a few things I have gathered from all the posts: 1 Rule of 3, great advice, wrote down and ready for future needs. 2 Flightplanning is an important part of the flight, take time and do it correctly. 3 I have a great little aircraft in the B1900D, stick with it and learn how it all works, you get more out of it then. I spent an hour on the tarmac yesterday just playing with switches etc. 4 Its a damn shame that Dash 8 wont work in AH. 5 Watch you tube to compensate for Caenado's lack of instruction. I did like the look of the Metroliner and the C130 but not really what I like to fly. Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
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