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Margaret Thatcher

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I recommend you all read Russell Brand's eulogy on our late, ex-leader, Margaret Thatcher:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

I've never been a fan of this so-called comedian - I guess I'm a little old - but, for me, he paints a very accurate picture of the Iron Lady. Yes, I lived through the 'Thatcher Years' and have seen the effects of her policies mature in successive administrations. But let me leave you with one of the earliest memories of the woman when she was still a junior minister in, I believe, Ted Heath's government:

Maggie Thatcher - Milk Snatcher.

That referred to her decision to remove free milk from British schools -the tip of the iceberg of what was to come...

As one or two members have said before, it wasn't all good news. And, if my memory serves, the regaining of the Falklands did wonders for her party at the subsequent election.

That's my two-penn'orth - I've refrained from giving it 'til now and I'll say no more.

Cheers - Dai.

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Here here Dai ... I've really been biting my tongue on this one for respect to members and Joe especially, but am going to let a little loose now from my perspective.

 

Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the Ivory Trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own Cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone – and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press.

 

 

We are not so innocent and perfect, guys.

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I just hate politics ... I really do, its almost tribal nowadays, like you have to choose a football team side or something, and then after no matter what happens, you support that team until the end, certainly for some forums I visit that entertain politics, its deeply entrenched fans ... a politician of one side can do something really unforgivable, but the supporters will support to the hilt each time ... truly and utterly Tribal.

 

I think as a race or species, we are still truly backward.

 

Most everything I wrote in that post was in reference to this.

 

John

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Well I think both sides have had a good say, as mentioned earlier like Marmite, love her / hate her.

 

Happy to have peoples opinions so long as it doesn't get personal. :hat:  

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My sympathy to her family and friends during this sad time. :(

 

Politicians do not work alone, even when they wear the top hat. She did what she did with democratic fashion and with her party behind her. That's just how works. JM2C :D

May she rest in peace. :hat:

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Hopefully she has RIP'd now and life can move on again? It was interesting to see the right that were aggressive towards the left were wrong, hardly anyone was disrespectful in this ridiculous waste of money military funeral procession I have no option for to pay for, very few turned their back on this procession in London but it does not mean it was a right wing Tory Whitewash as , community's that were effected are still effected, Maggies  Black and White policy's still live on today under Cameron whom is a Thatcher lover true and Blue.

 

I just think we've set a dangerous precedent ... lets look at the big picture here.

 

There were loads of UK Politicians in power involved in various wars over the years who never got a mega expensive TOLD to be paid for by public military funereal like Thatcher, and do you think Tony Blair who will pass away in time too will get the same send off? He was involved in wars too where even more of our lads have died in fighting the futile wars in Iraq/Afghanistan than ever did in the Falkands ... Of course not.

 

Its all political posturing, like Maggie or not, keep it to yourself, shite like this does not bring us together it just divides us.

 

This is the British Tory propaganda machine in full swing again ... It was the right thing to do, yeah Cameron.

 

Politics.

 

So much for, "We're all in this together"  David Cameron, so much too for his big society wish too .... asshole :) Tory politicians got nearly £4000 (EACH) of our tax payer money to travel to the Thatcher funeral that we dont have a final bill for yet but must be in excess on 10 million quid and Hee Haw whilst me and Brian who are genially disabled who each worked all our lifes as long as we could are subjected to scrutiny of the most degrading order under their welfare reforms under ATOS (LOL) fairness.

 

Some of you guys need to open your eyes to what is really going on :( But I fear we are in a culture if it does not effect you directly, nobody will give a damn until it does.

 

 

 

 

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FROM AN EARLIER POST -

I think you are just trying to casually draw me into one of your HOT debates because you think I'm an easy kill?

...

But I'm not going to be drawn into one of your orchestrated arguments I cant win my friend ... better luck somewhere else next time...

 

M31! Colin! Welcome back! I've missed you!

 

 

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Hopefully she has RIP'd now and life can move on again?

 

Was your life somehow put on hold for the funeral?

 

 

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...the right that were aggressive towards the left were wrong, hardly anyone was disrespectful in this ridiculous waste of money military funeral procession...

 

Your point is literally correct, but there was plenty of disrespect, some of it blatantly vulgar, in the days leading up to the funeral. That is their right, of course. All of us in free countries enjoy that right of free speech and they were within their rights to do that. Most who disliked her did indeed avoid disrespectful behavior during the actual funeral and thereby avoided being an embarassment to the nation during an event that got world-wide television coverage. The world knows that many there vehemently disliked her, but they mostly did not mar the state ceremony, to their credit.

 

 

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...got a...military funereal...

 

I believe it was a state funeral, actually, in which the military plays a part. Not the same thing at all.

 

 

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He [blair] was involved in wars too where even more of our lads have died in fighting the futile wars in Iraq/Afghanistan than ever did in the Falkands.

 

I don't think being "...involved in wars..." or how many casualties were presided over were quite the criteria for which she was so honored at her passing. To the extent that the criteria included the Falklands conflict, perhaps it should be remembered that she unilaterally took on and defeated a foreign power that had illegally invaded and sought to annex a part of the UK and sought to subjugate or expel some 2,500 UK citizens from their homes who had no wish to be, winning it outright in a little over two months. That's not quite the same as the involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, or even Kuwait, from the perspective of the UK. I also suspect that her role in helping bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union might have been a wee consideration in according her a state funeral as well.

 

...and who knows, ol' Tony may just get a state funeral too - you never know.

 

 

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...are genially disabled...

 

Perhaps you meant "genuinely"?

 

 

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But I fear we are in a culture if it does not effect you directly, nobody will give a damn until it does.

 

I'm not affected directly, but I "give a damn" about much of what goes on in Great Britain and in continental Europe. If giving a damn means being interested enough to be informed and to have a thoughtful set of opinions I'm willing to discuss and defend, then, yes, I give a damn. Alternatively, if giving a damn means I must have the same opinion of things as others - well, then I guess I don't give a damn after all.

 

By the way, a smiley isn't a period.  ;) 

 

John

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Sigh, John ... I don't know what it is about you that Joe finds attractive? A promised holiday in the US under the sun soon?

 

But you have always punched under the belt with me when you thought you were being clever to me IMHO, enjoy your

notiariaty my friend.

 

You have always been known how to truly wind someone up then run to Daddy ... please tell me Joe, John is as pure as cotton silk and never ever gets involved in altercations here and is as good as  gold.

 

I've got a cousin who is as pompous as you John. and my word he takes a lot of getting on with, he can blurt out without thinking too.

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PS John, in hindsight, do you think it would have been wiser as a Proud American you are always blowing off about to not have bought this crap up in the first place?

 

Nobody else from a UK flight sim perspective would have seen it.

 

What the hell did it have to do with you anyway?

 

I'm really leaning towards the theory you troll with what you know you can get away with now.

 

 

And they can appear to themselves every day
On closed circuit T.V.
To make sure they're still real.
It's the only connection they feel.
"Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, Reagan and Haig,
Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher, and Paisly,
"Hello Maggie!"
Mr. Brezhnev and party.
"Who's the bald chap?"
The ghost of McCarthy,
The memories of Nixon.
"Good-bye!"
And now, adding color, a group of anonymous latin-
American Meat packing glitterati.

Did they expect us to treat them with any respect?
They can polish their medals and sharpen their
Smiles, and amuse themselves playing games for awhile.
Boom boom, bang bang, lie down you're dead.

Safe in the permanent gaze of a cold glass eye
With their favorite toys
They'll be good girls and boys
In the Fletcher Memorial Home for colonial
Wasters of life and limb.

:

 

 

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Thanks for bringing this topic down Colin, now locked as you cannot be civil.

 

EDIT: Now M31 has gone, topic is open again.

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If anyone still cares about this thread, I was wrong about the funeral if Wiki is right.  According to them, Thatcher's was not a full state funeral, but,  "...in accordance with her own wishes...", was a, "...ceremonial funeral with full military honours...".  Others who have received the same were Queen Mary, Earl Mountbatten, Princess Diana, and the Queen Mother.

 

John

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Jeez, I've just read this thread in it's entirety and I'm blown away by his (Mr Banned for life), attitude towards you John.

I can only say, he is not a friend of mine.

I have in the past bought some hardware off him and also chatted through the PM system here, nut that does not make me his friend.

I am absent from these debates as I don't and have never, understood politics or religion, so I don't get involved.

He used my name, I think in an effort to make it appear I shared his opinions. I don't.

I'm in a pickle with my back yes, I have to go for a medical at some point, yes, but that's the only thing he and I have in common.

I like a happy, contented life and by not getting involved in stuff I know nowt about is futile.

I think he should have taken a leaf out of my book.

 

And peace......Thank you My Friends. :thum:

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Thanks, Bri.  As far as I'm concerned, no one has to choose sides between me and him.  If any of my friends here are also his friends, it changes nothing in my opinion of them.

 

I enjoy thoughtful discussion on all sorts of topics.  I try to keep up on topics of the day and things I'm interested in and tend to be pretty opinionated on some things; Dai says I'm pedantic at times - I'm sure he's right.  If a topic comes up that interests me I will frequently join in, expressing agreement or disagreement, adding facts or ideas or questioning things that seem incomplete, unclear or just plain incorrect.  Unfortunately, our newly absent friend seems to interpret questioning points he has made or not agreeing with him on what he's said as being a personal attack.  Instead of explaining, clarifying or defending that which is being questioned or challenged, he typically responds with the kind of thing you've seen.  He sometimes too interpreted disagreement or questions about his stated views as attempts to stifle discussion of the topic at hand, which couldn't have been further from my intent. 

 

It's OK.  I have very thick skin most of the time and his tirades don't bother me much.  I try very hard to not attack people - when I disagree with something they've said I may criticize an idea, a statement, an argument, etc, but always try to stop short of criticizing the person.  It's a distinction he seems not to understand. 

 

I will admit that at times I would deliberately wind him up - some people seem to be born with a "Kick Me" sign on their backs and his responses were sometimes so extreme that I couldn't resist twisting his tail a little for the fireworks it would produce.  Through all of that, however, I don't believe I ever attacked him personally. 

 

On one level I'm sad that he's gone.  He is an intelligent man and I would seriously have liked to have had serious discussions with him on some things, but in the end, it wasn't possible.

 

John

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If you want to play in the playground you have to follow the rules. :) Your right John, it is a shame because he had a lot to share when pleasant. :( I wish him well.

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I followed this thread with great interest. I am old enough to remember Thatcher in office (even though I'm not British) and have respect for what she did.

I don't agree with all she did (especially domestic issues) since I have different political ideas, but clearly action was needed in Britain after the labor disputes and economic woes of the seventies.

I am mildly surprised with the overall feelings concerning politicians. As a local (part time) politician I am still surprised with the barely concealed threats, sometimes overt agression and even hate we (politicians) are supposed to put up with. Believe it or not most of us are doing what we do out of conviction. I know that I don't make any net money for doing 16 hours a week of political work on top of my 40 h/week day job.

 

//Rant off

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Cheers John.

Can I have a holiday in Florida please? :rofl:

I assume I won't have to pay anything towards it. :rofl:  :rofl:

 

Nae thanks, Wifey has booked us a holiday on the Isle of Mull in the Inner Hebrides. :cool:

That's if I can get there. :huh:

 

 

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Never in the field of British Politics, Has one person , been so divisive, to so many! (With apologies to Winston Churchill for paraphrasing him!) :D

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It would be true to say that I am not, and never could be, a fan of the objectionable Thatcher machine. My political philosophy is without doubt diametrically opposed to Thatcherism. The methods she used to achieve her goals were actually quite abhorrent, I speak of methods that harmed many and helped but a few. Short term pain for many, in order to provide long term gain for the lucky few.

 

Despite warnings from over 100 economists, Thatcher attempted to control the money in circulation in order to reduce inflation. It was an utter failure, inflation doubled in less than a year and her policies were ultimately responsible for a massive rise in unemployment. Council tax, destruction of the mining industry, selling off industries she had no right to sell off [industries that had already been paid for by the tax payer] In essence, the pursuit of policies that caused undue suffering for many working class men and women in this country. 

 

She was certainly bad for the country during her premiership, and unfortunately her influence lingers on. The causes of the present recession, unrestricted credit, deregulation and excessive financial speculation, date back to the early 80's. No government since has reversed the trend she set in motion, a curse we now all share.

 

However...

 

I can't think of anyone else I would have preferred as PM during the Falklands crisis. I truly believe that no other PM would have had the guts to do what she did and that the Falklands would now be in the hands of the Argentinians if it wasn't for Margaret Thatcher. We can also thank Margaret Thatcher, along with Ronald Reagan, for the role she played in the ending of the cold war.

 

So I don't begrudge Margaret Thatcher her fancy funereal. She was a women that loved her country, and as economically misguided as it was, absolutely believed her policies were the right ones. And as far as I'm concerned, the morons that choose to demonstrate during her funeral deserve a dammed good kick up the backside, for not having the common decency to behave during such an occasion.

 

 

P.S. I think it's awesome that someone else was having a heated debate with John, rather than me. :unclemartin:

 

 

 

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Hello Uncle Martin, glad you could drop in!

 

Thanks for your two-penneth I thought you had disappeared from the forums.  

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You didn't bring Odai with you, did you?

John

 

John, that's akin to an actor speaking the name of the Scottish play, outside of the theatre. You must turn around three times while chanting your favourite curse avoidance spell.  

 

Please do it now to avoid the curse.

 

The fate of the multi-verse is in your hands.

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You must turn around three times while chanting your favourite curse avoidance spell.

Please do it now to avoid the curse.

The fate of the multi-verse is in your hands.

OK, anything for the cause...

 

Double, double, toil and trouble,

Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Wool of bat and tongue of dog,

Let Odai not come soil this blog.

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