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BaldEagle

Which Flight Sim?

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I'm new to the forum and flight sim. I do have about 1000 hours flying multi-pistons. I'm now thinking about flying a turbine Duke for which there is an excellent RealAir sim. At this point, I'm not interested in gaming, but actually using the sim to learn to fly. Is there a preference for FSX or P3D? Is either company positioning itself to work with Oculus in the VR realm? Any help and ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Hi, Richard, and a warm welcome to the forum!     ^_^

 

Wow, I suspect you're going to get a lot of different opinions on this question!       :P

 

Anyway, FWIW here's my 2ȼ, but bear in mind that I moved straight to FSX (from FS9) as soon as it was released, hence have been using it for getting on for ten years now....

 

I have admired P3D from afar, but TBH the only significant change that I notice onscreen is the presence of cloud shadows (and from 40,000 ft they are not too important to me, although if you mostly vly low 'n slow I can well imagine that they could be a factor). Much is made of claims concerning fewer OOM errors and less VAS depletion with P3D, but the same benefits are also available within FSX providing you run in DX10 mode with the assistance of Steve's Fixer (see http://www.mutleyshangar.com/reviews/bc/dx10/dx10.htm ).

 

But this could get quite technical very quickly, so instead, let me attempt to sketch in a high level summary for you.

 

You say you are new to flight simming, and are mostly interested in simulating the Turbine Duke using RealAir's excellent version (see http://mutleyshangar.com/reviews/joe/rtd/rtd.htm for our founder's opinion of the original v1 TD — and here is an FSX shot of the v2 over Norway, en route to Orbx's recently-released ENSD):

 

 

Over-Norway.jpg

 

 

OK, so let me suggest a few things which you might wish to consider (please ask again in a new thread if there any specific aspects which you would like to know more about — the girls and guys here are a great bunch who will be happy to try and help you):

 

  • Both FSX and P3D come with a certain learning curve (yes, in addition to the aviation aspects!). It also helps if you are reasonably familiar with how to move files around, edit configuration files, and so on — or are willing to learn.

 

  • Both FSX and P3D require a computer with a fast CPU (a 4GHz i5 or i7 is generally quoted as the minimum for smooth flying when using advanced add-on aircraft like the Turbine Duke v2 along with additional scenery and complex airports), and also a reasonably powerful nVidia — AMD kit doesn't work so well since it tends to choke on cloud textures — graphics card. You ideally need an SSD for your O/S; and your flight sim files situated on a fast internal HD with lots (think Terabytes) of space — today's scenery and airports chew through disk space with a rapidity which will amaze you!

 

  • Because FSX has been around for so long, there is an abundance of add-ons (aircraft, scenery, you name it) available for it. This might be significant if, for example, you prefer to vly out of one of the smaller airports which may not yet be available in P3D. Modern releases of add-ons these days routinely come with installers for FSX, FSX Steam Edition, and later versions of P3D; but older releases which were only for FSX may need massaging — or running through a Migration Tool — before they will work in P3D. I don't know anything about Oculus Rift support, but I believe that one of our members, John Guest, is looking into it, so he's probably the best guy to ask (you can also check out the posts in this thread http://forum.mutleyshangar.com/index.php/topic/18708-oculus-rift/#entry145320 for some initial discussion about OR).

 

  • If you are starting from scratch then there is no real reason not to consider P3D from the outset, especially when some companies charge you twice if you buy both an FSX and a P3D version of the same thing (something which applies to the RealAir Duke, as well as the later PMDG heavies, and others). Although the P3D pricing may perhaps be a something of a disincentive.

 

  • Be aware also that the pace of development of P3D means that they do tend to break some things in existing add-ons when they move up a version. Patches soon become available, but you will need to keep everything up to date. FSX releases, on the other hand, continue to work because Micro$oft has dropped out of the flight simulation business with the result that FSX has had an extraordinarily stable and long life. But not such a long life that I and many others feel impelled to move to P3D — well not yet, anyway (although the large number of FSX add-ons which we have bought over the years will also inevitably be a factor).    ;)

 

  • Whichever of the two you choose is capable of giving you a great experience of simulated flight, especially if you use add-on hardware (yoke, throttles, rudder pedals, large monitor(s), and so on). And although all that stuff in addition to a fast PC will initially be expensive, it still won't really compare with the cost of a course of flying lessons (and all the rest of it) at your local airfield — well, not in England, at least....   :faint:

 

I hope that helps a little. I'm sure others of the inmates will be weighing in with their opinions, too!     :D

 

Cheers,

 

bruce

a.k.a. brian747

 

 

 

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Hi Richard,

 

I would agree with everything Bruce has said.

 

I see you are interested in VR in which case go for P3D which is already compatible with Oculus Rift and more likely to receive updates, and there is another developer working on developing it further https://flyinside-fsx.com/

 

Cheers,

Joe

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Welcome to the Mutley boards Richard.

 

Only thing I can possibly add to Bruce's terrific response is that FSX original disks may be getting hard to find, and expensive. I don't see them in my local Fry's stores anymore, and I have seen some copies selling for ridiculous prices on ebay, amazon and elsewhere.

If you find a reasonable priced copy, you will want FSX Gold/Acceleration...which is the latest version that provides support for helicopters. Yeah yeah, yeah... sure, I also had zero interest in flying helicopters at first...now I am a hella heli-junkie...so, leave the possibility open. :D

 

Or just go for P3D if the other factors associated with it are workable for you.

 

Cheers and welcome again to Joe's dog house.

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Welcome Richard...not sure where u are but there is a place near me in the UK that still has copies of FSX and wont rip you off...well said Bruce agree with what you said...

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Welcome, Richard. Just for info, there's some interesting news out today on Occulus. There are some things buried within the user agreement that some might find a bit intrusive.

Nothing to do with flight sim, but...

...says Oculus will collect "Information about your physical movements and dimensions when you use a virtual reality headset."

So we're talking about tracking the movement of your body, and then sending that information to Oculus, which is owned by Facebook.

And later on in the privacy policy, Oculus explains what it can actually do with this information. Among other things, it explicitly talks about marketing, and using the Oculus Rift "to measure how users respond to our marketing efforts."

Users have discovered that the software you need to run the Oculus rift is configured to run all the time, in the background, reporting back to Facebook.

So to recap — we're talking about a system that's always monitoring, tracking your physical movements, sending that info to Facebook, and using it to tailor marketing messages to you.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/oculus-rift-privacy-1.3520453

John

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To hell with that! if what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt you JA, then that has saved me a few quid.  I won't be going the VR route.

 

I am beginning to dislike Facebook and their associated companies, they seem too keen on invading your privacy. I user an app on my phone called WhatsApp but only as most of my friends do.  I found out that that is owned by Facebook too.

 

Once upon a time, many years ago now, I had a Facebook account. I closed it as I thought it was too invasive and I didn't use it.  My kids still use Facebook (they are grown up and can make their own decisions) and my account still appears on their friends list complete with the icon I added several years age. Clearly the account is closed but some of my data is still there. 

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What I put in red text is a direct quote from the linked article.  I don't know if it's true or not but that's what's in the piece.  I agree about Facebook - won't go near it.  I simply do not trust that little twit who runs it.

 

John

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There's always Track IR which to me would much better for flight simming, frees you up at your workstation better than Occules.

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Just my 2c worth also Richard, alongside FSX there is a book available called Microsoft Flight Simulator X for Pilots real World Training which has been designed for real world flight training. I have it and it comes along with several FSX pre-made flights to allow you to practice the principles taught in the book. Seeing as how FSX and P3D are so closely related, I should think it would work for both versions. Here is a link to it for you to look at :- http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0764588222.html

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Track IR everyday...cant see any point in OR for FSX...it will be ok for Consoles and games where you just use a controller.. i wont be buying..As for Sim choice there will be someone with an arguement for each...all down to personal preference.. but I know one thing for sure whiche er you chose you will end up buying loads of addons....

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I have the book Adrians notes and it's very good.  It has links to a dedicated site with all kinds of supplemental materials to support what's in it.  Well worth the cost.  I'm also a TrackIR user and agree with the comments on that.  It's a game changer and really adds to the reality and the usability of the 3D cockpits.  I always found the 3D panels difficult before TIR, now use them almost exclusively.

 

John

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A warm welcome to Mutley's Hangar Richard. I trust you will enjoy your time here.

 

Thanks all for your input on this thread. If what you have quoted JDA is true, I won't be signing up for OR either.

I have TIR although not the up to date version and find it a great addition to my sensory enjoyment of flight simming.

Another few hundred pounds saved. Thanks. :thum:

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Thanks for the pointer to that book, Adrian.  Had forgotten all about that....just ordered a copy from Amazon. (cheaper !!)

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No problem Arnold, it's well worth it. Don't forget to download all the material from the Wiley website that goes with it. Links are provided in the book.

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No problem Arnold, it's well worth it. Don't forget to download all the material from the Wiley website that goes with it. Links are provided in the book.

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