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dodgy-alan

B777 crash in Dubai !

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Thank goodness everyone got out in time...Good slides, Good crew.

 

No details in that article about why and how it 'crash landed'...was there a malfunction? Did they AP it in to a crash...did they hand fly it to a crash?

 

Ah...details...pilot error?

 

Accident: Emirates B773 at Dubai on Aug 3rd 2016, touched down during go-around without gear, aircraft on fire

By Simon Hradecky, created Wednesday, Aug 3rd 2016 09:32Z, last updated Wednesday, Aug 3rd 2016 12:57Z

 

An Emirates Airlines Boeing 777-300, registration A6-EMW performing flight EK-521 from Thiruvananthapuram (India) to Dubai (United Arab Emirates) with 282 passengers and 18 crew, was on final approach to Dubai's runway 12L at 12:41L (08:41Z) but attempted to go around from low height. The aircraft however did not climb, but after retracting the gear touched down on the runway and burst into flames. All occupants evacuated safely, no injuries are being reported. The aircraft burned down completely.

The airline reported: "Emirates can confirm that an incident happened at Dubai International Airport on 3rd August 2016 at about 12.45pm local time."

United Arab Emirates Government confirmed an Emirates aircraft arriving from India suffered a crash landing at Dubai Airport, all passengers have been evacuated, there are no reports of injuries.

According to ATC recordings the aircraft performed a normal approach and landing, there was no priority or emergency declared. Upon contacting tower tower reminded the crew of lowering the gear and cleared the aircraft to land. Another approach reported on tower frequency. About 2 minutes after EK-521 reported on tower, the crew reported going around, tower instructed the aircraft to climb to 4000 feet, the crew acknowledged climbing to 4000 feet, a few seconds later tower instructs the next arrival to go around and alerts emergency services. The position of the aircraft is described near the end of the runway.

 

http://avherald.com/h?article=49c12302

Edited by Captain Coffee

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I'm starting to think that these 777's are built pretty well, except for a couple of engine fires and disappearances, so far all crashes have been pretty good for the passengers.

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I agree, they look like being tough old birds, that one that landed at Heathrow without engines was largely intact as well, the main damage being the wheels and engines ripped off  and the inner wings trashed.

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This is what I've distilled from twelve or so pages of posts on PPRUNE so far.

 

Airport: OMDB, Dubai, UAE

 

Type: 777-31H

 

Registration: A6-EMW (Emirates)

 

Flight: EK521

 

From: VOTV - Thiruvananthapuram - is the first airport in the state of Kerala, India.

 

People: 282 pax, 18 crew, no fatalities (see below)

 

Crew History:  Crew had a 29 hour layover prior to the flight. 

 

Temperature:  Reported 49 degrees C at the time of the crash!!!

 

Runway: 12L

 

Gear collapse on landing, with fire.  Aircraft pretty much completely destroyed by post-crash fire.  Evacuation must have been a near-run thing.

 

Supposedly Emirates first hull loss in 31 years.  The A340 climbing the blast wall in Toulouse was Ethiad.

 

No emergency declared or squawk before landing so possibly no clue of a problem...

 

Windshear reported - unknown if it was a factor or not.

 

OMDB 030900Z 11021KT 3000 BLDU NSC 49/07 Q0993 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 1500

Definitely wind shear in the TAF.

 

Report he tried to go around, selected gear up and impacted the ground anyway.  That is plausible with a wind shear event.  11 knot tailwind reported.  Not supposed to raise the gear until positive rate established.

 

Good comment here: "Windshear; Tailwind; Temp 49°C; QNH 994; Density altitude 4,620'; Go around; Positive climb; Gear up; R/T call.  Which ingredient was missing in that list?"

 

Temp of 49 C and QNH 993 yields a density altitude of about 4,500'.  Not a great set of conditions for attempting a wind-shear induced go-around, but should have been somewhat light at the end of the flight - lots of pax but lots of fuel burned off too.  One guy who appears to be knowledgeable says "Performance with both engines even at 49 degrees is not an issue."

 

Report that pilot made an announcement to pax that there was a gear problem.  That does not seem to square with no declaration of emergency or other problem to ATC.

 

As usual, many evacuating pax took carry on luggage with them.

 

Wind interfered with the escape slides on one side of the plane.  Have never heard of that before but that's what they're saying on PPRUNE.

 

1 fatality reported now.  Fatality was an emergency services worker, not pax or crew.

 

It now looks like there was possibly a very hard initial touchdown and a bounce, with the gear down, and then an attempt to go around, including raising the gear and possibly some/all of the flaps.  There is also a hint that some outside-of- procedures configuration changes were made in the go-around attempt.  Boeing says no configuration changes until clear of the wind shear and a positive rate is established.  It appears that may not have been adhered to, if in fact there WAS  windshear and if there WAS a go-around attempt.  All this is somewhat conjectural so far.

 

A lot of this will become more clear later but it's what I've been able to distill so far from the PPRUNE comments, which usually reflect better informed opinion than what you'll see on any commercial news service.

 

John

 

EDIT:  Captain "a local", FO Australian

 

One guy says cycling the gear ADDS drag for a while because some gear doors must open first to accommodate cycling the gear back closed.  Apparently some of the gear doors close again after the gear is lowered and them opening again so the gear can go back up increases drag temporarily.  If true that's probably part of why the manufacturer says no configuration changes until clear of wind shear and positive rate established - it gets worse before it gets better if you raise the gear.

 

JDA


 

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That's what I've been reading as well, looks like the flight crew screwed up big time on this occasion. I daresay once the flight recorders are examined all will become clear. Worrying to see how quickly that aircraft burnt to the ground like that though. I wonder how one of the new "plastic planes, B787, A350 etc" would fare in a similar situation.

 

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agree its amazing how quickly it was totally destroyed, also surprising how everyone got off.......sounds like procedural error didnt help....

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3 hours ago, dodgy-alan said:

Worrying to see how quickly that aircraft burnt to the ground like that though. I wonder how one of the new "plastic planes, B787, A350 etc" would fare in a similar situation.

 

It went pretty fast.  Aluminum isn't much protection either, once the fuel gets going.  Also, it's often the smoke that incapacitates or kills, before the fire reaches them.  

 

One thought from PPRUNE last night is that the evacuation was aided by the fact that the gear was collapsed and the deck-to-ground distance was considerably less than if the AC were standing on it's own legs.

 

John

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10 hours ago, allardjd said:

 

It went pretty fast.  Aluminum isn't much protection either, once the fuel gets going.  


The Royal Navy learned this to their cost in the Falklands campaign. Aluminum dosent provide protection in a fire, infact it is the opposite, when the heat from a fire reaches a certain point the molten aluminum itself will burn, and activly spread the fire. You only have to look at what happened to HMS Antelope to see what heat and aluminum can do.

 

an-argentinian-bomb-exploding-on-board-h

 

Aluminum is also a constituent of the explosive Torpex which in turn was used in the Upkeep, Tallboy, and Grand Slam bombs.  It was also used in Torpedoes.

 

I have flown into Dubai many times and always on a 777 be it Emirates or BA. its a great aircraft. I would guess that the cause will come out as pilot error exacerbated by unusual/freak conditions.  49 degrees C is hot even by Dubai standards, I personally have experienced 52 Degrees C in the Sahara (it will kill you in a couple of hours if you have no water) and that sort of temperature can create all sorts of micro-climatic conditions.

 

 

Edited by J G

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20 hours ago, J G said:


The Royal Navy learned this to their cost in the Falklands campaign. Aluminum dosent provide protection in a fire, infact it is the opposite, when the heat from a fire reaches a certain point the molten aluminum itself will burn, and activly spread the fire. You only have to look at what happened to HMS Antelope to see what heat and aluminum can do.

 

an-argentinian-bomb-exploding-on-board-h

 

Aluminum is also a constituent of the explosive Torpex which in turn was used in the Upkeep, Tallboy, and Grand Slam bombs.  It was also used in Torpedoes.

 

I have flown into Dubai many times and always on a 777 be it Emirates or BA. its a great aircraft. I would guess that the cause will come out as pilot error exacerbated by unusual/freak conditions.  49 degrees C is hot even by Dubai standards, I personally have experienced 52 Degrees C in the Sahara (it will kill you in a couple of hours if you have no water) and that sort of temperature can create all sorts of micro-climatic conditions.

 

 

I spent several years out in the region when I worked for BP. the hottest place we ever dropped anchor was Khassab Bay, just inside the Straits of Hormuz, we were there for 2 weeks discharging 27,000 tons of cargo into small coastal tankers and even drum carrying Dhows that serviced the local fishing communities. The place is an extinct volcano with one side blown out, the heat hits the sides of the old crater and then bounces straight into the ship! after the first week our Air Con motor failed and parts for it had to be flown out to Dubai which were then brought up by a supply launch, that meant that the interior of the ship very quickly heated up as well as the outside. It was regularly 110F in the shade. we couldn't go onto the exposed decks as our boots were melting to the steel. You didn't dare go outside unless fully covered as you'd have blistered very quickly, (No Factor 50 sunscreen in those days!). if you got burnt after ignoring the advice it was considered a self inflicted injury and you either lost pay, or as happened to one lad, if you were sent ashore to hospital you were fined by the company as it cost them a lot to pay for your care. All work had to be done at night when it cooled marginally. The topography of the place meant that there was little wind in the bay and it was like living in a furnace! we had the fire pumps working flat out with numerous valves open on deck to send cascades of water across the ship but even that was steaming at times! To say it was a hell hole was an understatement!  We finally got the air con working the day before we left the place, but we were sure glad to get out of the area and into the main body of the Persian Gulf where at least the temps were more manageable. I went back to Khassab on another ship- a while later but thankfully it was winter so somewhat cooler and the Air Con worked properly on that ship. Still not a place I'd ever want to return to though. 

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My Sahara trip was from Morocco which was experiencing a heat wave at the time, Many of the lakes and reservoirs were severely depleted, and our middle aged guide said he had not seen the water so low or experienced the heat being so fierce before. 

 

We were there in August, not ideal but it made the trip cheaper and was in the school holidays, We went on a four day excursion into the Sahara, first by Landrover over rocky desert and then by camel over dunes.  After about an hour in a non air conditioned vehicle it started not to be so much fun.  It was hot and stuffy and so I opened a window for some air.  This was a mistake. Go and get your hair drier, turn it on, select the hottest setting and blow your face with it.  That is what it was like.

 

After a days drive we reached a building on the edge of the dunes, on its own and very rustic.  The accommodation was very basic indeed and there was no AC or plumed in loos. However as the walls were old and thick with no windows there was some relief from the heat. We spent two nights in this hell hole thinking things could not get worse. We were wrong.

 

On the third day we set off on camels across the dunes. Wrapped up except our eyes to protect our sensitive fair skin from the heat, our steeds plodded slowly along the crests of the dunes and up and down the more gentile slopes. Many dunes are crescent shaped with the horns of the crescent pointing with the prevailing wind, their sides are very steep indeed and from the top of a camel can be quite scary as the beast plods along the crest only a couple of inches from the precipice. We stopped a couple of times during the day for water, but not for long as the sand beneath our feet was too hot to stand on even with soft shoes on.

 

Being dehydrated can make you feel very nauseous as can the swaying motion of a camel ride.  Camels don't move like horses, their legs having a completely different way of working. They have a distinctive sway which is very like the motion of a boat on the sea. No wonder they are called the ships of the desert! A few hours into our journey we were all feeling very sick, the last thing you want to do is vomit as you say goodbye to a shed load of liquid in doing so.

 

Eventually we arrived at our destination toward the evening, a tented Bedouin camp. Understand this was not a tourist destination, but the real thing. We were offered food and drink, the latter was very welcome, but the nausea we were all experiencing ment there were no takers for food. Bedouin tents are not like a western tent.  The are made of heavy material a bit like a cross between a carpet and blanket.  As a result the tents were too hot to enter and we spent the night under the stars.  Night in the desert is cooler than the day, some say even cold enough to have to wrap up. I had on such experience. it went from 'kin hot to just very hot. Night in the desert is truly amazing.  there is no light pollution, there is no light at all.  The stars are visible in a way I had never seen before, The Milky Way was like a band of stardust from one horizon to the opposite, and faint meteors could be seen surprisingly often. 

 

The following day we cameled back to the building. This was extremely unpleasant, we had all the negative point that we had going out with the extra torture of having to ration the water as we had slightly over done our consumption.   By evening we made it back to the building and enjoyed a night in the relative cool of its rooms. Early the next day we set off in the Landrover for our beautiful hotel with its running cold water, air conditioning and pool.  However there was one last punch to be thrown. The last person to be a passenger in the Landrover had not managed to resist the temptation to vomit. The vehicle owners had done their best to clean it up but the inside of the vehicle stank of sick an when you feel sick there is nothing like the great smell of sick to make you want to join them. So it was a case of sick stench or hair drier. I went for hair drier and cowered away from the worst of it

 

Safe back in the hotel we all enjoyed a cold shower, some cold drinks and the wonderful A/C and pool.  Well I had done it and realised it was off the bucket list, but would I do it again. Not bloody likely. I drank a huge amount of water on the trip and still managed to piss rust for the duration.

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5 hours ago, J G said:

My Sahara trip was from Morocco...   ...and still managed to piss rust for the duration.

 

Man, some guys really know how to have fun - then there's you.  Glad you survived it to warn off others.

 

John

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Yes folks, As John and I have both witnessed, the Middle East is not to be taken lightly.  When you venture there, you follow the rules, you stay safe, and you don't try to be clever. Most importantly , never piss off the locals, they can be your best friends, but your worst enemies. They know the land, you don't. People have died of thirst less than half a mile from a source of water. Turn left at the wrong sand dune and you could be lost.  disrespect their customs........and you could be dead! One of our officer cadets made the mistake of standing on the Saudi courtesy flag one evening as he was lowering it, one of the guards on the jetty saw him do it and put a bullet through his leg!  Another guy nearly caused a diplomatic incident when he hung the Saudi flag upside down! He had no idea that the verious swirls all over it were a prayer from the Qoran! I Captain and the British Amabassador had to do some serious talking to stop the poor bugger being jailed! After that all new crew joining the ship were shown all the flags from the places we were visiting in the area and told in no uncertain terms what would happen if they fouled up! It's an interesting part of the world, but go prepared. 

 

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>>One thought from PPRUNE last night is that the evacuation was aided by the fact that the gear was collapsed and the deck-to-ground distance was considerably less than if the AC were standing on it's own legs.

 

Not sure about this comment.With the aircraft properly up on its gear, the slides are steep, and it's quick trip to the ground, so the rate of flow is faster, provided you can persuade the customers to go for it. Collapsed gear, with a shallow angled slide, is not the case they were designed for, although they remain usable. The operative phrase in drills I've participated in is "Jump and Sit," which the crew will be repeatedly yelling in addition to other useful stuff - like Leaving Your Luggage Behind - which is always a big problem, as in this case. Speed down the slide is so fast there are friction strips to slow you at the bottom or you'll go base over apex when you arrive at ground level - speaking from personal experience. And I think it's hilarious that people were busily filming the whole thing on their cameras, when the remaining tons of kero were just waiting for a chance to blow...

 

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Quote

"#GCAA warns all residence in the #UAE to stop abusing social networks by publishing videos, news or pictures of aviation’s accidents"

 

Quote

Sharing such practices is considered to be irresponsible and disrespectful to the victims, and is punishable under law.

 

From PPRUNE.  Interesting development.  I guess "residence" should be "residents".  GCAA is the local version of FAA/CAA, i.e. a government agency controlling aviation.  It is a crime in the UAE to use social media to make this kind of information public.  Emirates is a big outfit with plenty of influence.  It's not a stretch that neither they nor the UAE powers-that-be want anything published that might make either the airline or the UAE look bad.  Not that much different from what we saw in the MH370 aftermath.

 

So far, there are no photos or video of the accident aircraft on final showing whether the gear was in fact down or not.  The government and the airlines are playing their cards close to their chests on this and not much credible information has been released officially.

 

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>So far, there are no photos or video of the accident aircraft on final showing whether the gear was in fact down or not .

 

I hesitate to comment so early on. But I believe the tower gave a "check gear" call with the a/c on final. This is routine for military aircraft, but not for commercial. It may be usual at Dubai - don't know. I also believe a go-around was initiated for some reason. Either the gear wasn't down in the first place, OR possibly, the very high density altitude on this occasion may have led to a latish flare and hard touchdown, with a go-around being initiated. If a positive rate of climb was not achieved before "gear up" called....

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1 hour ago, Funta said:

I hesitate to comment so early on. But I believe the tower gave a "check gear" call with the a/c on final. This is routine for military aircraft, but not for commercial. It may be usual at Dubai - don't know. I also believe a go-around was initiated for some reason. Either the gear wasn't down in the first place, OR possibly, the very high density altitude on this occasion may have led to a latish flare and hard touchdown, with a go-around being initiated. If a positive rate of climb was not achieved before "gear up" called....

 

The "check gear" call from the tower appears to be factual.  Some say it's not unusual in that part of the world and does not necessarily mean that the tower controller saw that the gear was not down.  I have no clue.  Given that warning, the GPWS and various other audible cues that should have been going off in the cockpit it seems impossible that they could have continued the approach without selecting gear down, even if it was in fact still up at that point, but then I remember that "Bitchin' Betty" said "Stall" almost a hundred times in about four minutes while AF447 was falling into the Atlantic, fully stalled while the PF continued to hold the stick full back.  Apparently the human mind can block out all sorts to important input in stressful situations.  If they were anticipating or in the throes of battling wind shear, maybe all the audible reminders to put the feet down somehow didn't register. 

 

It appears there WAS a go-around attempt, and the gear was up when the AC settled in, if it was ever down, but in any event the AC sank to the runway with the gear already up.  

 

It appears uncertain at this point whether there was a touchdown with the gear down and a subsequent "bounce" with the GA initiated on the rebound, or if the GA was initiated prior to the initial contact with the runway.  If the gear-up touchdown was the first contact, there still remains the question of whether the gear had ever been down in the first place.  If the bounce scenario is the correct one, then certainly the gear was down and was retracted too soon.

 

There seems to be a strong consensus at PPRUNE than no manufacturer of any transport aircraft recommends retracting the gear until a positive rate of climb is established, and Boeing further specifies that no configuration changes be made until clear of Wind Shear, if it is present/suspected.  There was wind shear present but it's unclear how much of a factor it was in the initiation of the GA or in the final settling of the AC to the runway.  

 

The "plain" 773, vice the ER version, is considered the least capable of the T7s in being able to climb out of a GA, but still comfortably meets certification requirements and there seems to be general agreement that aircraft performance should not have been an issue, even in those environmental conditions (low pressure, high temperature) with both engines functioning.  Fuel load would have been fairly low on arrival.

 

It seems likely that someone in the cockpit screwed the pooch, though that's not proven with certainty yet.  It may be that they ran into an unrecoverable wind shear event but, if so, it still doesn't explain why the gear was up with the AC settled in to the runway. 

 

In my opinion it's not likely that we'll ever see all the details.  We'll get a sanitized, abridged version and one or both of the guys in the cockpit will bear the brunt of the blame, whether that's accurate or not, and it may well be.  

 

John

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SOP for my old outfit:

 

Pilot Flying says "GoRound" and pitches up, presses autothrottle toggle in front of thrust levers for GA thrust. 

Pilot Not Flying says "Positive Rate" by VSI.

Pilot Flying says "Gear Up."

Pilot Not Flying selects Gear Up.

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That all sounds pretty consistent with what I'm seeing at PPRUNE - now almost 30 pages of comments there.  

 

One exception is that for some AC, pressing TO/GA in some conditions will only get you some intermediate thrust level able to deliver 2,000 fpm climb.  On those AC a second press of the button sets full throttles.

 

John

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