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I'll be the bear in the room.

Is there any need for a Microsoft Flight forum any more?

This is, of course, subject to the discretion of Mut and the members at large...but personally, it feels almost as though Mut's Hanger is actually endorsing Flight as a serious sim just by having it.

There are more credible sims in the 'Other' category that probably deserve a place before Flight.

My 2 cents :whis:

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It's an interesting question given that Microsoft have said Flight is not a Flight Simulation and that Flight is not aimed at Flight Simmers.

I seem to recall Joe saying in one of the hangarcasts that Flight would retain a place on the forum and ultimately it's Joe's call.

Personally I wouldn't miss it as it distracts me from posts about real flight sims :whis:

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Quote
Microsoft have said Flight is not a Flight Simulation...

 

Tom Allensworth thinks it is - at least he says so in his first question to Joshua Howard in his interview with him, though he seems to have changed his mind by the last question...

 

Quote
Tom Allensworth in the first question:

...to discuss the next product in the MS Flight Simulation genre; FLIGHT.

 

...and then at the end:

Do you ever foresee a day when MS will return to its Flight Simulation product?

 

 

There's an example of clear thinking.

 

John

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It seems, to me, that Flight should be considered as a contender in the category or genre of flight simmulators. Regardless of the differances of opinion on it's validity in this regard, it does in it's own way simmulate flight in a valid environment. If the forum lies stagnate for a set length of time than it could be considered ready for the garbage bin. On the other hand, if it is utilized then it has a right to stay here along with all the other enteresting sections. :twocents:

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Coming at it from another angle, it doesn't really hurt anything by being here. It's a lot like having sardines at a picnic - no one eats them but it keeps the flies off the rest of the food.

 

John

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there is no way flight could ever be conceived as anything but a childs game it is most certainly not a simulation as for tom allensworth? well i promised Joe i would not be controversial - - - - -

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Coming at it from another angle, it doesn't really hurt anything by being here. It's a lot like having sardines at a picnic - no one eats them but it keeps the flies off the rest of the food.

John

i like this guy!

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Hi Guys!

All comments have been taken on board and I would be interested in more views.

My view is MSF is a flying game, similar to RoF and other role play flying sims. I have no interest in it, but at the moment it is still a valid forum considering the impact it has had on our hobby.

The forums in that section are purely alphabetical, no importance has been placed on its position I would rather it was there than in the flight simulation section.

For the time being I will keep the forum, it is doing no harm and there are a couple of our regulars who are enjoying posting shots, movies and discussion, I would rather they did that here than move to a FLIGHT Fan Boy site like AVSIM.

If it does fizzle out as a forum then I will merge it with another forum.

Cheers,

Joe

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Thanks Joe, But Devon was right to eke this out this way IMHO.

As I recall back in the day, we had no choice .... One certain hypocritical site with the big A name blocked their content for a certain MS FS of the time, and the owner admitted it.

We should vote on MS Flight here.

Seriously, way back, Avsim actually did a block of certain new content.

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Clearing up my thoughts a bit more :)

Its good that we can have a MS Flight forum here too, just so long as we are allowed to criticise as we would do any other sim ... certain forums have stifled negative thoughts on MS Flight and Microsoft ... and I have seen some of that here, but nothing like elsewhere ... I'm not joking, it's like a new religion elsewhere, with new posters of a long term hard core Flight sim site successfully complaining to the owners about anything negative of MS Flight and having long termed posters banned ... I've seen it!! and no I'm not banned there, I handed in my keys shortly before it was evident the way MS Flight was going and that site took its stance.

Its just crazy what a beta tester invite can do to some people if its from Microsoft.

I was thinking of suggesting to Joe something along the lines of just boycotting MS Flight here, especially in light of the way Joshua has mocked and talked down serious flight sim enthusiasts like us in many of his stupid public statements ... I recall Avsim once denied Microsoft any publicity for I think it was MS FS 98 ... or was it 95? But that's what they did, and fat lot of good it did.

I say keep the MS Flight forum open here, This is by far one of the best most mature sensible flight sim sites on the net that we aspire too, in time we can look back as this saga happened and how it effected passionate long term MS flight simmers like me and others and even had some of us fighting amongst each other (divide and conquer) too ... if only for a while :) It wont be hidden forums or deleted posts, it will be documented as it happened from thoughts on all sides ... I certainly wont diss anyone here that likes Flight.

Let it be documented as it happened I say.

I'm banging on now, but I'm bitterly disappointed with this direction and turn from Microsoft ... not so much with the new direction MS Flight has taken, but by the way certain folk at the top of this tree (Looks like Joshua is a fall guy) demonized the long standing hard core Flight sim community that supported the MS Franchise for so long ... his attack on us was as unexpected as it was incredible, but he is obviously a fan of divide and conquer tactics for short term profit ... for sure some of the gaming forums i visit bring up MS Flight from time to time, and you can see Joshua's quick grab marketing tactics working on them, but as sure as day turns to night, the MS Flight topic slides under water again on those same boards ... the latest buzz its its free again, on Steam this time, how much longer can MS invent free to prop up this shallow game?

I was criticized here for buying some MS Flight content and that sent them a wrong message, well I hope the fact my account shows how little I use MS Flight and I can guarantee, there will be no more DLC from me shows their marketing more.

Thank heavens for P3D and a wealth of FSX add ons.

Rant over :)

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Thanks Colin,

I know deep down that a lot of people share your sentiments and I am more than happy for members to have their say so long as it is well thought out and courteous.

You made a good point about looking back how this all unfolded and how it created unrest, the natives are revolting! I hear you say! ^_^

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This is intended as a light hearted remark and not intended to start a deep review over the terms game, simulation or anything in between. One thing I have learned is that what something like Flight is is a personal thing. Nevertheless I feel the need to point out that Steam consider Flight to be a Simulation:

image135.png

To be clear there is a comma between each genre category: Free to Play, Casual, Simulation. I can imagine that the concept of a Casual Simulation would cause many to see Red ;)

On the more serious matter as to whether this site should have a Flight Forum then I would say why not? Others far more eloquent than me have laid out the arguments on both sides.

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I don't get my shorts in a knot over the terms "simulation" and "game". We've been seeing FS9 and FSX installed in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games for years. It's nothing to be thin-skinned over.

 

John

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I don't get my shorts in a knot over the terms "simulation" and "game". We've been seeing FS9 and FSX installed in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games for years. It's nothing to be thin-skinned over.

John

I'm with you on that one, John...when I was more active in the 'community' I met some fanatics who actually took offense at the word 'game' used in conjunction with MSFS - so much so that a slur campaign was started against the Aces Studio head because Microsoft was re-branding MSFS under the 'Microsoft Games' label at trade shows.

lol - yes I appreciate simulation as much as the next sim junkie but getting upset over such things seems rather bizarre and obsessive.

With respect to Flight, my point was more geared with respect to the quality of the game as supposed to whether it's a 'game' or a 'sim'.

At the end of the day, it's not a big deal whether the forum goes or stays. I just felt that there are some more worthy entries in the midst that deserve 'independent forum' status beyond the disaster that is Microsoft Flight. (in my humble opinion)

Also, it stands to reason that as flight communities we need to send a clear message to Microsoft that 'Flight' is NOT respected in hopes that they will get back on track to making something more akin to simulation as supposed to an aviation-themed version of 'capture the flag'. (provided that is the commonly held view, of course)

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