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Reading the posts here I am not sure many folks are that interested in Flight.

However a list of suggestions was started a while back on the beta forum in an attempt to get everything in one place. That list has now moved here : http://msflightforum.myfastforum.org/about152.html to make it more widely accessible and easier to maintain.

I can assure everyone that the Flight Team are aware of, and supportive of this list. It makes it easier for them to find out what the community is looking for rather than checking lots of forums. A lot of the suggestions will reflect what folks have been saying for some time. We do know that the Flight Team are actively looking at TrackIR support but thee are no promises when that might appear.

If anyone would like to add to, or comment on, anything related to the list then you do not need to join the Forum hosting it. We are checking all the main sites regularly.

All I would ask is that any comment and suggestion are 'helpful'

Thanks

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I don't mean this post to be snarky in any way - this is an objective, non-critical comment. After reading the linked page, it strikes me that almost everything that is being asked for is already available in FSX. If MS were to incorporate all those things, broaden the geographical scope to include the whole world and open the door to add-ons, particularly aircraft, while retaining the graphical quality of MSF, they'd have FS11.

 

John

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John

I think you are right - the folks making suggestions are for the most part FS9/FSX users who are looking to create FS11 from Flight. It is a self selecting group of course and we are reflecting what is being asked for.

At the moment I can't access the Steam Forum (all the Valve employees have gone on extended vacation and no one is left to authorise new registrations) However one we can then we will also make the list available to the Steam folks and perhaps different views will come out.

At this time who knows where Flight will end up. I just want to make sure that the Flight Team have this in front of them!

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I don't mean this post to be snarky in any way - this is an objective, non-critical comment. After reading the linked page, it strikes me that almost everything that is being asked for is already available in FSX. If MS were to incorporate all those things, broaden the geographical scope to include the whole world and open the door to add-ons, particularly aircraft, while retaining the graphical quality of MSF, they'd have FS11.

John

This basically.

Let's just get on with FS11 and hope for a 2014 release.

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I fear that there are too few serious flight simmers in the world (a few tens of thousands would be my best guess) to pay for the cost of the MS effort to do what is necessary to make that happen, or at least that is Microsoft's view. If they've got $5M dollars sitting around for a new development project, they can probably get a much better ROI spending it on some things other than FS11. As much as I'd like to see it happen, I don't think it will in the forseeable future.

 

I'm hanging most of my hopes on P3D at this point, but never say never on anything.

 

John

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I fear that there are too few serious flight simmers in the world (a few tens of thousands would be my best guess) to pay for the cost of the MS effort to do what is necessary to make that happen, or at least that is Microsoft's view. If they've got $5M dollars sitting around for a new development project, they can probably get a much better ROI spending it on some things other than FS11. As much as I'd like to see it happen, I don't think it will in the forseeable future.

I'm hanging most of my hopes on P3D at this point, but never say never on anything.

John

I dont necessarily agree with you here, whilst i was disappointed that flight turned out not to be fs11 M.S didnt give LM the rights to sell prepar3d to the general public hence all these weird scams to sell it to as many as possible (students/ developers etc) to get a ROI as there are not many large companies that would pay large sums of money to use it for proper training and fsx will never be allowed to be used for professional training for a whole variety of reasons so maybe LM has bought a pup?

there are already lots of professional computer based simulators, but they are not interesting to the likes of simmers because of their cost, the lack of large areas of scenery, the inability to change across a load of a/c etc

Also now that the Flight team has got its feet wet, if there isnt sufficient demand for new a/c and new scenery for flight, which i am certain there wont be, (i will predict they will make maybe 2 other scenery areas after alaska and maybe another 3 or 4 a/c before throwing in the towel) isnt it a logical progression for them to move onto fs11? M.S. is having a tough time, office 365 is a non event as the general public have no faith in cloud based programs (quite rightly in my eyes as there is zero security) and they have updated all their popular progs to the Nth degree and are suffering the laws of diminishing returns ,i still use office 2000 as it does everything I want from an office suite but will go over to open office before I pay the charges M.S. expects people to pay for the latest all singing office prog. Windows 8 likewise will see sales way below the win 7 level unles they get rid of that ridiculous metro interface, i cant think what they are trying to do there, to expect everyone to go out and buy touch monitors then have to work looking through a grubby monitor full of finger prints, simply insane.

So for me they have to lean on their laurels and resurrect their best selling "game" title which isnt a game it is a simulator. As poor as flight is it does give a few hints of how easy it would be for them to make fs11 the shorelines and seas are better than fsx and the fog is extremely realistic ok the landclass isnt that much better but let the outside industry get involved and away we go!

So m.s. get your finger out!

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I will put my money on the table that you will never see FS11 from Microsoft - although I am no longer at all clear on how we would recognize it in any case. I am sorry but I can see no reason at all why it should happen. This is just my opinion of course :)

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I agree Jon. The sales potential is just too small. MS wants sales in the hundreds of thousands of units or more and will see anything less as not worth tying up the capital. They can get a better return on other things. To quote a line from one of the "Godfather" movies, it's not personal - it's just business.

 

Britfrog, I don't know that the actual wording of the P3D licensing terms with MS have ever been made public, but my understanding is that they are constrained from advertising to the retail market, not from actually selling it there.

 

E-Commerce is largely supplanting brick and mortar sales anyway, particularly for software, so L-M/P3D may just be able to do a pretty brisk business with simmers through press releases, word of mouth, etc. The serious flight sim community is pretty integrated and plugged in to industry events, new releases, etc. P3D might do pretty well and since it's small potatoes on the MS scale of things, MS might not interfere.

 

It may well be too that MS does not see P3D sales as being in direct competition with MSF. I doubt many bubble-gummers will make a conscious decision to buy P3D over MSF, just as most in our community won't latch on to MSF.

 

I see the two products as very different and appealing to very different market segments. If MS feels that way too, and if they get a few bucks from each P3D sale with no more effort than licensing the source code to L-M, why would they interfere? The ROI will be quite good, since there is so little investment on their part in letting L-M have the license in the first place.

 

John

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I will put my money on the table that you will never see FS11 from Microsoft - although I am no longer at all clear on how we would recognize it in any case. I am sorry but I can see no reason at all why it should happen. This is just my opinion of course :)

This is what I'd like to see ... FS11.

But finally, MS have let the the old stalwarts know, they aint interested in us any-more ... and like a sad relationship we can just let it go.

Bye Bye Microsoft girlfriend and hints of good Flight things.

Good riddance if that's the way you turned.

Honestly .... I've given MS Flight ever chance... I love simulation on the PC Platform

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Looking back on my Flight install and this is with the latest patch that's supposed to fix a bunch of stuff, its still lacking as even a basic Game, they have not fixed such basic things as the toe break axis or even just adding a repeat command to various controls such as zoom in zoom out to a switch I'm used to. I need to go hack the games .xml files for even the basic ingredients needed to make this game compatible to not just casual game players, but enthusiasts too ... MS strung us along in the run up to this disaster too, they owe us at least the basic control functions for supporting their series over the years ... or maybe its true what Joshua hints, they have that money now and we can all go take a hike?

Its good to see track IR is going to be included in the future ... it really should have been in there from the start though ... why do i get the feeling this shallow game has had its corners cut, left right and centre for even a basic flight sim?

I might not seem it, but I'm pretty patient waiting for a release to get fixed in the Flight Sim world ... my reckoning is .... and MS might want to listen, is ... get the basics right from the start and then perhaps release more DLC ... as it stands and even after the new patch there is so much lacking in MS Flight it beggars belief.

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Not sure why you're continuing to bang your head on that wall.

 

My recommendation is to go straight to P3D. It IS, for all intents and purposes, FS11 and it's already available. It's based on FSX source code and has all the functionality of FSX already included. It has been and will continue to be improved significantly over FSX. It appears most FSX add ons will work with it directly and for many of the rest there are workarounds identified already. The vendors are starting to belly up to the bar to produce versions that will work directly with P3D and even PMDG, who have been the most adamant in resisting it, will come along soon enough if that's where their customer community wants to go.

 

It appears to me that MSF has miles to go to approach the functionality of FSX in simulating real-world aviation and by their words, probably won't, ever. For instance their plans are two geograpich areas and three to four new aircraft per year - and the whole world? Never, accrding to them. Their idea of a geographichal area so far is one US state. If that's the model, it's gong to be a long time before there's anyplace to go. Yes, the graphiccs are fantastic - they are in Battlefield 3 too, but they're both still just games.

 

John

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Not sure why you're continuing to bang your head on that wall.

Neither am I

So I'll stop if you will stop.

Conversely, not sure why you keep banging your head on the wall of those that complain, John, there is a lot to complain about here for a room of Flight Sim Enthusiasts, what do you want ... Avsim clamp down style... seriously, this is not the first time you have attacked someone who does not like the precious MS Flight Game. then only to go of on your own Anti Flight Game mod mood in a separate thread ... that you made excellent points IN BTW.

I don't get you, sometimes, please make your mind up mate :)

Honestly mate, we cant discuss this game on Avsim for fear of being bounced, please don't start that authority crap here ... I've already thought of leaving here because of your Bullying ... don't get me wrong, this is an otherwise Flight Sim Nirvana and I'd love to stay for the long term.

My recommendation is to go straight to P3D. It IS, for all intents and purposes, FS11 and it's already available. (snip the lecture)

I've already bought an Academic P3D licence, please check my posts in the relevant forum.

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Colin,

See PM.

John

i saw PM and this needs to be open I think.

But its not rocket science John, you seem to have reserved the right to criticise MS upon Flight in many of your posts, but take unkindly when others do too ... what's that all about?

http://forum.mutleys...ward-of-flight/ Post three and onwards in that thread.

And yes, I agree with everything you said in that thread, so why a bit later do you talk down to folk who continue in the same vain? ... please tell me its not, Do as I say, not Do as I do ... because that's the way you are coming across sometimes.

You cant have it both ways.

The pure matter of the fact is, MS Flight is unpopular with a lot of the old MS Stalwarts and i thought Avsim were bad banning the dissent, but only you seem keen on coming down hard on those that protest here ... whatever.

But yeah, arguing is ugly on a friendly forum like this that we all respect ... I wish MS Flight had been much better and there were no fall outs in the community.

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This basically.

Let's just get on with FS11 and hope for a 2014 release.

Then you do believe in Santa Claus :)

Was there any need for that?

If I can make any constructive comments towards MS Flight, it would to be to not DIS the hand that fed you, Joshua Howard in particular needs to realise this, the MS FS Franchise probably went on longer than his childhood and certainly longer than his failed Antz game.

Scruffy, the best thing MS could do for MS Flight just now is make Joshua apologise for all his stupid comments towards the long term Pro Flight sim enthusiasts, you know what I'm talking about here and so does he, all he's done is alienated his biggest audience while gambling the gamers will take hold, but even if that is right, his attitude is disgusting about how vocal he has been towards the majority that make up this site ... genuine Flight sim enthusiasts.

That is my suggestion.

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John, you seem to have reserved the right to criticise MS upon Flight in many of your posts, but take unkindly when others do too...

so why a bit later do you talk down to folk who continue in the same vain? ... please tell me its not, Do as I say, not Do as I do ... because that's the way you are coming across sometimes.

...but only you seem keen on coming down hard on those that protest here ... whatever.

Was there any need for that?

 

Please don't interpret disagreement with specific statements as anything global with respect to the topic. I've responded to posts that contain points I disagree with and I try to address those points specifically, e.g. my response to a statement in another thread about Microsoft making "excess profits".

 

You and I and all other forum members are free to express any opinion we wish, about MSF or anything else, whether others agree with us or not. We are also free to disagree with expressed opinions - that's what forums are. If we state an opinion we may need to defend it or simply ignore those who disagree.

 

You seem to interpret differing opinions as attacks or as attempts to stifle certain opinions or points of view or discussion of certain topics. They are not.

 

If you disagree with responses to your postings, instead of feeling mistreated, respond and rebut ON THE SPECIFICS OF THE TOPIC, not on the fact that someone had the audacity to not agree with you.

 

No one here is trying to stifle your topics, statements or opinions. Have at it about MS, MSF or anything else, but do so knowing some may disagree with some of what you say. If that's the worst thing that happens to you today, it's a good day.

 

John

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I am posting this as an interesting aside to the level of dissatisfaction argument. I provide these figures without comment. They do include posters on this site.

This analysis covers the three main Flight Sim Sites - AVSIM, Flightsim and Simviation - and some others including Mutleys. I checked back through the posters in the relevant Flight Forums and also made a note of who was significantly negative or significantly positive about Flight in their posts. In some cases this is an impression as there are both positive and negative comments by some folks. I went back more or less to the release of Flight. I would say the poster count overall is within 10% or so, given that I might have missed some on the one hand and on the other some folks have different user IDs on different sites and got counted twice. I have rounded the percentages to the nearest 'big' number.

  • Total posters on Flight Forums - 365
  • Negative leaning posters - 20%
  • Positive leaning posters - 15%
  • No leanings discernable - 65%

I did not measure it but the 80-20 rule almost certainly applies here that 80% of the posts are made by 20% of the posters.

We don't know how many regular Flight users there are out there or how many DLC units have been sold . The Flight Team do so I guess they can work out if less 100 negative posters on Flight are significant or not.

You are welcome to confirm or challenge these figures but I can assure you that I did do the counting.

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