Taxiing and Takeoff question for smaller airports

[UKJim 502]

Hi Guys,

Another quick question; on the image below it shows the runway and you join the runway in the middle - in real aviation would it be standard practice to join the middle, go all the way to the end and do a U-turn to takeoff?

Another example of this is the Fall City strip

Cheers,

Jim

[SEATAC 400]

There are some runways where you do enter the runway at a place other than the end. Then, as you said, taxi to the end and turn around.

Certainly not major airports such as Logan or KFLL. But at some airports this is the practice.

[Tim_A 997]

It all depends on the airport and what taxiways are available. In the example, the only entrance to the runway is in the middle, so you would need to

A. check there are no approaching aircraft on final (if there is a tower, atc might clear you onto the runway, but you should still check anyway. This is good airmanship.

B. backtrack down the runway and turn around at the end. You'll see the runway is widened at the end to allow for the poor turning circle of most aircraft.

[UKJim 502]

yeah cool - I assumed the same but wanted a double check for real world aviation to make sure it is true etc.

Thanks guys

[allardjd 1,853]

You'll seldom see this at a towered airport. It's usually found at small airports and is most likely done to avoid the cost of adding a parallel taxiway.

John

[UKJim 502]

I haven't flown from this airport yet so haven't experienced this myself but yeah the tower should be of great help with all these GA aircraft pushing their way in

[aeromax 10]

I've also made ​​that experience (in real). This procedure is also performed e.g. in Zagreb Pleso (LDZA) in earlier times. Now that's just not a small airport. Everything else is as described above.

[Tim_A 997]

There's a rule that the plane on the runway 'owns' the runway, and no other plane may enter or land until that plant has vacated or taken off. In Europe, a plane that has been cleared to land also 'owns' the runway, which is why landing clearances can be issued very late (even after you've crossed the threshold... "Golf Charlie Delta continue approach; expect late clearance..."). In America that is not the case, and landing clearances can be given to lots of planes at once and quite a long way out, but you have no guarantee that the runway will be free of other traffic.

To help with potential blockages at airfields with a limited number of runway entrances, there is a conditional clearance: "After the landing/departing <aircraft type> line up", which means that once the landing or departing aircraft has passed your holding point, you can enter the runway and line up.

[allardjd 1,853]

If that's the way they do it in Europe, I like it better. In the US you sometimes hear something like, "...XYZ clear to land - #3 to land - follow the Britten Norman Islander and the 747 - caution wake turbulence..."

How low can you legally get in Europe while expecting a late clearance - a foot higher than the rudder of the guy who's taking his time getting off the runway? That must make for some anxious moments, but it sounds like a better system for most cases. Here it's more like, "...expect a late go-around..." though they never actually say that.

John

[Tim_A 997]

Only one aircraft can be cleared to land at a time - because that aircraft then owns the runway. Think of the clearance as like the baton train drivers use over a single track stretch of railway line.

You must not be *on* the runway. Over is not on. You must not land until you've been cleared, but flying above it at 1 foot is fine...

You could still be number 3 on final though:

--> "G-ABCD final"

<-- "G-CD, "report short final, number 3"

-->"Report short final, G-CD"

--> "G-CD, short final"

<-- "G-CD Continue approach, expect late clearance"

--> "Continue, G-CD"

<--"G-CD Cleared to land"

-->"Cleared to land" squeal

[aeromax 10]

There's a rule that the plane on the runway 'owns' the runway, and no other plane may enter or land until that plant has vacated or taken off. In Europe, a plane that has been cleared to land also 'owns' the runway, which is why landing clearances can be issued very late (even after you've crossed the threshold... "Golf Charlie Delta continue approach; expect late clearance..."). In America that is not the case, and landing clearances can be given to lots of planes at once and quite a long way out, but you have no guarantee that the runway will be free of other traffic.

To help with potential blockages at airfields with a limited number of runway entrances, there is a conditional clearance: "After the landing/departing <aircraft type> line up", which means that once the landing or departing aircraft has passed your holding point, you can enter the runway and line up.

This is absolutely correct. Even the approaching traffic with clearance has the right of way. The next clearance ´ll follow until he has vacate the runway. Also you ´ll get as follows:....PA28 holding-position bravo taxiway runway 25 with romeo ready for departure...after landing boeing 737 line up and wait/hold... or... traffic on short final, are you ready for immediate departure...-> affirm...! but then quickly.