Airport worker trapped in 737 cargo hold

[MartinW 0]

I'm now going to run away and hide.

Promise?

John

Absolutely no chance.

[ddavid 149]

Baggage handlers across the US - and Europe - tend to be employed not by the airlines or the airport, but by an 'out-sourced' contractor. Alaskan is not the only airline to out-source its baggage handling. In SEATAC, Alaskan employ Menzies - a UK company. As Alan says, hours are long and the work strenuous.

Here's one view of the situation from http://www.passengerterminaltoday.com/opinion.php?BlogID=31 :

"Unfortunately, outsourcing has had a negative influence on the quality of baggage handling. Service Level Agreements (SLAs) can never adequately replace the direct responsibility that airlines and airports used to have for baggage handling. Despite these SLA’s, third-party baggage handlers compete primarily on monetary terms, and so must keep their costs as low as possible. They do this by hiring dozens of low paid temporary staff who have little loyalty or commitment to the role. "

A further issue relates to union membership, which is denied to most baggage handlers employed by Menzies, because of the US Railway Labor Act of 1926. Here's a brief description from

http://www.kplu.org/post/why-sea-tac-airport-workers-cant-join-union-better-pay

"The Railway Labor Act is even older than the National Labor Relations Act. That’s the law that covers, say, Boeing machinists or a GM factory worker. But a whole different set of rules applies to railroad workers, and those were later extended to airline workers. They have a higher bar for unionization; they have to organize across the country, not just in one city. ... that makes sense for pilots or flight attendants, but less sense for subcontractors [like baggage handlers].

... Baggage handlers ... don’t ever see their counterparts in other cities. Basically it’s almost impossible for these workers to organize a union, because they have no idea where the other workers are."

There's no excuse for falling asleep on the job. And whilst there may be extenuating circumstances, the SEATAC baggage handler is most likely to lose his job. However, suggesting that he'll benefit from union support is most unlikely.

I guess that's why I questioned your contribution, John. I hope you'll accept my response in the spirit it is offered. Thanks.

Dai.

[allardjd 1,853]

 I hope you'll accept my response in the spirit it is offered. Thanks.

 

 

Fair enough.  Done.

 

John

[MartinW 0]

To quick to judge, not so sure. The fellow stated he fell asleep, even if that was not the case something did cause him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hey, we all make mistakes but this ended up being a biggy. I feel sorry for him but as they say, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

If I am paying someone union wages or otherwise I expect him to work. Even if he was on a break, it is a ridiculous place to take a nap, no? It would depend on his record if it was up to me to melt out punishment but he would definitely be in deep doo-doo either way. I would be interested in which entity will be paying for the delay when all is said and done.

 

Yes he did state he fell asleep. However none of us here know WHY he fell asleep. Was he being forced to work long shifts by management? Was he trying to make ends meet and had a screaming baby at home keeping him awake? Probably not, but my point is that there are 1001 reasons why he may have fallen asleep. Yes, one of the reasons may be that he's a lazy sod, but none of us here know that. Hence why we shouldn't jump to conclusions and condem him as just a lazy sod and call for him to be sacked. Our knowledge in regard to the background to this story is zero.

 

Don't worry, if it's revealed that he is indeed a crap worker, always sleeping on the job and notorious for this behaviour... I'll be the first to condemn him.

 

If I am paying someone union wages or otherwise I expect him to work. Even if he was on a break, it is a ridiculous place to take a nap, no?

 

 

 

True if it was a deliberate nap. Not true if he fell asleep due to fatigue and had no control over his bodies requirement for sleep. Not true if he has undiagnosed hypothyroidism and was suffering from extreme fatigue.

 

Have a read of Allen's post above. Was Allen a lazy git, did Allen deserve the sack? I would say no, what about you?

 

Once the facts are known, if they ever are, I will judge him then.

 

The other aspect to this story relates to the fact that such an eventuality can transpire in the first place. Luckily for him, the hold was pressurized and heated. But what if it hadn't been? Shouldn't there be an alarm system in the hold, for unfortunate circumstances like this? Or perhaps an intercom?

[allardjd 1,853]

True if it was a deliberate nap. Not true if he fell asleep due to fatigue and had no control over his bodies requirement for sleep. Not true of he has undiagnosed hypothyroidism and was suffering from extreme fatigue.

 

 

What ever happened to personal responsibility?  When someone does something boneheaded there are always people who jump in with reasons why he's really just a hapless victim and it's just not his fault.  The likelihood of one of those things being in play here is small - not zero, but not highly likely.  If it is one of those, the chances that it had never happened to him before and he was totally unaware that he was susceptible to such things are vanishingly small.  If he was so afflicted, he probably already knew it.  If known, not taking precautions against it is irresponsible.  If he's not up to the job, physically, medically, emotionally, mentally or whatever, should he be permitted to crawl around in the bowels of an airliner just before flight?  

 

If he took a deliberate nap, or partied all night and fell asleep because of self-induced fatigue, he shouldn't have the job. 

 

If he was using a substance that induced the nap, he shouldn't have the job

 

If his personal life is so chaotic that he can't manage enough sleep to be able to perform the job effectively and safely, he shouldn't have the job.

 

If he's medically or otherwise not up to the requirements of the job, he shouldn't have the job.

 

Given what happened, I can only come up with one scenario where he should have the job: IF he has a good work record and there's no indication of any medical or other inability to meet the job requirements and this was a one-off, atypical action for him the company should apply the principle of progressive discipline.  In that case, the event should be documented and he should get a written warning and be put on notice that any repeat will result in discharge. If he is indeed a good employee there will be no repeat and everyone will live happily ever after.

 

Note that I don't say he shouldn't have any job, but he shouldn't have one where his personal habits or capabilities create a risk to himself or others, including an avoidable, significant financial risk to his employer.  Does anyone think that there aren't attorneys out there this morning trying to get the passenger list of that flight so they can represent some of them in a lawsuit against the airline or the baggage handling contractor for the delay, inconvenience and stress (some will say fear or terror) of having the AC turned around while in flight?

 

John

[MartinW 0]

What ever happened to personal responsibility?

I'm afraid personal responsibility doesn't come into it if the human body is fatigued enough. The body's responses don't care about personal responsibility. Did you not see the bit were I stated that I would be the first to condemn him if it transpires that he is indeed a lazy sod?

Had the same experience myself. My son Daniel didn't sleep through the night for 18 months. We tried everything we could, nothing worked. We ended up taking it in turns each night. One night zero sleep, one night sleep. We were both exhausted, but despite that I had to go to work the next morning and engage in highly technical tasks. Not going to work was NOT an option. Yep sure enough, one morning I found myself slumped over one of our typographers desks nodding off. At the worst possible moment a member of management walked by. Luckily he was the reasonable sort and he just gave me a shove to wake me up.

 

When someone does something boneheaded there are always people who jump in with reasons why he's really just a hapless victim and it's just not his fault. The likelihood of one of those things being in play here is small - not zero, but not highly likely

 

No it's not highly unlikely, it happens all the time for all manner of reasons, Happened to me, happened to Allen, something similar happened to my wife. Happens to many. Who said "it's just not his fault"? I didn't, who did? No one here. Just don't judge until you know the facts. Even if you are right and a circumstance that encourages one to sleep on the job is rare... that still doesn't give you the right to condemn and judge until you KNOW the facts.

 

If he's not up to the job, physically, medically, emotionally, mentally or whatever, should he be permitted to crawl around in the bowels of an airliner just before flight?

 

Don't think you're listening. You can be as physically, medically, emotionally, mentally suitable as you like, but if an ass hole boss pushes you too far, or you haven't recovered fully from a bout of flue despite assuming you have, the effects can be profound. Profound and sudden. But those are just a few examples, there are many.

So what about Allen when he fell asleep? Are you saying he had no business handling a large vehicle in the vicinity of aircraft, because he experienced ONE episode where his body had had enough and he nodded off? Would you have sacked Allen? Everybody and anybody can experience this, and they don't have to be lazy bums.

 

Given what happened, I can only come up with one scenario where he should have the job: IF he has a good work record and there's no indication of any medical or other inability to meet the job requirements and this was a one-off, atypical action for him the company should apply the principle of progressive discipline.

 

 

Exactly! which was my point way back. And that one scenario is highly likely! So until we know if that was the case or not don't judge, don't definitely claim he's a lazy bum and should be sacked.

 

I've fallen asleep on the job, Allen fell asleep on the job, my wife fell asleep on the job, countless individuals have, and the body's responses don't give a damn where you are. All of us experienced one off episodes, so why don't you assume that for this individual, rather than assuming the worst, rather than assuming he's a lazy ass hole that deserves the sack? Not everyone is a lazy scum bag.

 

 

[MartinW 0]

When someone does something boneheaded there are always people who jump in with reasons why he's really just a hapless victim and it's just not his fault.

 

Here's a worse scenario for you than a mere baggage handler falling asleep ONCE!

 

What about 56% of pilots admitting they have fallen asleep on the job???

 

A survey of British pilots – timed ahead of a vote in the European parliament on Monday on proposals to set out maximum working hours for pilots – found that 56% admit to falling asleep in the cockpit. And while pilots may be using autopilot anyway (something we may be headed to with cars as well), in many cases, no one appeared to be awake. Some 29% said they have woken up to find their co-pilot asleep.

Moreover, some 43% said they believed their ability to fly a plane had been compromised at least once a month for the last six months, and 49% list tiredness as the biggest threat to flight safety.

 

 

What do we do, condemn 56% of pilots as lazy bums and sack them all. Assume they did it deliberately? Assume  it's all their fault and nothing to do with stupid hours.

 

Don't think you would. So don't instantly condemn the baggage handler either until you know the facts.

[allardjd 1,853]

Oh for Pete's sake, Martin. You really need to get a hobby.

 

Yeah, I'm going to go with the preponderance of probability and say that he was irresponsible in some way, while acknowledging that there is some slim chance that he was the victim of some insidious situation that had never afflicted him before and that he had no inkling of - unlikely, but barely possible.

 

Only his company and God get to judge him in this matter. The rest of us are just opinionated kibitzers whose opinions have no effect on the outcome, so harmless. You've got your opinion, I've got my opinion, all God's chillins have got an opinion. We've stated ours, so lets give it a rest.

 

John

[TomDangeroux 4]

"Analyses of large representative samples, from both the United States and the United Kingdom, confirm this prediction. In both countries, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to be liberals than less intelligent children."

Reading this thread it appears that the hypothosis is correct

[mutley 4,498]

Ok gang, this one has run its course. (I even have a new emoticon!)