JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Hi Just wanted to thank Jack for the Saitek Pro Flight Switch Panel review (Nov 2009). It was the only useful one I could find on the 'net. There was one other on an FS site that sells it - so pinch of salt required with that one, and I gave up after 2 para's anyway, as it was complete rubbish and giving me a headache... back to Google! Jack, you told me what I needed to know in a concise and even interesting manner (apart from the complaint about 2004 compatability - get with the times, man! ). I've ordered one and look forward to getting clicking. Thanks JD PS: I was just looking for a review for the Saitek Radio Panel, and guess what? .... yep - Jacks' done one of those, too! :clap: (April 2010 - and pleased to see you've now got yourself up to date :biggrin: ) So thanks again! Haven't done one on the G940, by any chance? Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Heya JD, Thanks very much for the kind words! I'm glad my review(s) came in handy and yes the switch panel is definitely a fantastic buy. And yes, I know what you mean about the FS2004 moans, but alot of simmers still use it as it provides better performance. Nonetheless, I've switched fully over the FSX now and am enjoying it all the way . Also, the Radios are awesome too, it's just a shame about the frequency select knobs are a little jumpy. I've bought two however (using them in a COM1/COM2/NAV1/NAV2 setup). If you're into Hardware, you may wish to check out my review of the Opencockpits PnP Transponder Module. I was largely impressed with it too. Also, sorry no review on the 940, I'm strictly a Saitek lad :biggrin: . Thanks for taking the time to write this post! Regards, Jack :clap: Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,498 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Hi JD, 'bout time we saw you on the old Hangar! I see you are selling your Saitek X52 Pro, feel free to advertise in the Hardware forum if you want. Cheers Joe Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Hi Joe, and thanks. Yeah, I'll wait a little while on the X52 ad (not a pro, mind) as my G940 is on its way and if I am as impressed with it as I hope to be, the X52 will be going for less than the current Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 JD - If that is so you may be interested in my upcoming review of the Opencockpits USBServos Card which controls Servo motors for FSX, ideal for building motorised gauges and other applications. Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 I'll be sure to have a look at that - bearing in mind, of course, that I am on a low income (MOD pension) and have to save for most things - or pay on the good ole never-never :biggrin: Here's a great example of the sort of thing I come across in other reviews. Even with English native speakers, the content often beggars belief: . You can mount the controllers to a desk or a board with integrated mountain holes. I kid you not! At least it keeps me smiling. JD Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Maybe they're just really, really big holes... John Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Hallo John Just something else that I saw today on the G940 that has me very confused. It's from the Logitech product site, no less, in their troubleshooting FAQ: Q:Can I use my G940 to control aileron and rudder functions in Flight Simulator X? Flight System G940 Model Number:J-U0001 (Joystick) Flight Simulator X does not support analog aileron or rudder control. You cannot use the G940 trim dials for aileron or rudder functionality. To use the G940 with aileron or rudder controls, assign them to a button or directional pad on the G940. Answer ID 15488 Created 2010-02-09 10:56:21 Updated 2010-02-11 11:38:02 What the dickens are they on about? :nea: JD Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 FSX does not allow you to assign analog controls to aileron or rudder axis. And, from the looks of it, the G940's Trim Dials are analog. So basically, these Trim Dials cannot be assigned to Aileron or Rudder controls. One does wonder where these Trim Dials are though... Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 The trim dials are on the base of the joystick - there are 3 , one each for aileron trim, rudder trim and elevator trim. What I don't get is how they can't be analogue in FSX! I use a throttle quadrant (the Saitek one that I seperated from the Pro Flight Yoke kit) connected through the BU0836X and I use one of the levers to control the elevator trim. It's only whilst I'm in-between quality HOTAS, of course, and currently using a cheap alternative (Thrustmaster T-HOTAS). The lever control is a potentiometer - not a switch. I have the lever assigned to the elevator trim under "axis assignment" in FSX. You can adjust the response and dead zone within FSX, and within the input control panel of Windows, and the response of the elevator trim in FSX is directly proportional to the amount I move the lever. How, in Hades' name, is this not analogue? With the X52, I had it assigned to a rotary control on the throttle lever. Same deal with the control method. As I said - I don't get it. Maybe I'm getting old and suffering the initial symptoms of dementia? JD PS - it's a similar thing with ailerons and rudder - although I'm wondering if that is, in fact, an illusion created by the control method of FSX and that these control surfaces are either 'full' or 'flat', as in on/off in digital-speak. If that is so, how do I manage to turn at a different rate, according to how much I move the joystick? Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 JD... I share your thoughts. Before making the post above I thought... Hang on! A Pot connection is surely Analog! But, I have no idea why Logitech are saying this. If they are there (the trim dials), they can surely be interfaced SOMEHOW. So, I reccommend just playing and tweaking it - It'll probably work. Unfortunately without owning and taking the device apart myself I cannot provide further enlightenment on Logitech's apparently conflicting information. Best of luck, Jack :nea: Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Nearly 2 weeks since I ordered this kit and it still hasn't arrived! :smile: Shown as being 'in stock' and 'in our warehouse queue' since last Thursday afternoon... Won't be buying there again! JD Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Grrrr... Write a review and mark them DOWN for shipping! Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 JD and Jack, Use of a pot as the primary control does not preclude the device having a digital output - the term doesn't necessarily mean a two position switch, of course. There is certainly an analog to digital converter or other hardware between the primary control (pot) and the USB (I presume) output of the Saitek device; it's quite likely that what's being sent to the computer is an encoded, digitized form of the setting. It's not very likely that the USB output is anything as crude as directly placing the voltage drop across the pot on an output pin. Thinking about trim adjustments, those controls (in FS hardware) usually are switches and FS must respond by counting pulses. In the controls setup in FS you can specify a Repeat Rate, so holding down the switch is seen by FS as a series of pulses or repetitive switch presses. It sounds as if the Saitek hardware that is between the pot controls in question and the unit's output is not capable of rendering movement of the pots as pulses. Instead it's probably simply encoding and sending a digital value that represents where the pot is set in it's range. Obviously it is possible to use the pulse method with a pot or the throttle function (also a series of pulses in FS) would not work either. It appears that the manufacturer chose to configure the output of some of the devices in his product one way and some the other. What's puzzling is why Saitek would do something boneheaded like using inappropriate digital conversion in some of the controls a flight sim device when the primary software package for which it is intended (Flight Simulator) cannot use that output format. Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 John, I am aware of how the analog to digital converters work (come across them before in SimKits devices), specifically their rudder pedals: http://www.simkits.com/product.php?prodid=541 In somes cases, the "crude" method is used (name BU0836X, Opencockpits Master Card), and only converted to a digital signal at the last second using the PIC Controller on the Card(s). A common ground and +5V has to be setup by yourself and voltage is spread across the card. In fact, the USBServos Card of Opencockpits does EXACTLY that, after I measured the Servo pins with a Multimeter, they were giving around 0.7V each per pin. And, a Servo is basically a Potentiometer, just with a Motor attatched (Servo = Pot + Motor). A pot can not give out a digital signal. It is analog full stop, maybe it is converted to a digital signal afterwards, but a pot will always usually be analog. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 27, 2010 Report Share Posted July 27, 2010 Jack, Considered in isolation, of course a pot is analog. If you throw in the conditioning and converting hardware that's between the pot and the output USB cable, most anything is possible. Note that the throttle control of Flight Simulator is also "pulsed", just like the elevator trim. I suspect MS (or SubLogic before them) did that so people could fly from a keyboard. None the less, the makers of aftermarket throttles, including the Saitek one, manage to send pulses that FS can interpret and use when the external device is connected. The primary input device of an external throttle is surely a pot, but the bits and pieces in the controller reduce movement of the pot to a series of pulses that are ultimately sent out the USB port to Flight Sim. My point is that the fact that it's a pot does not preclude the output being seen as digital (i.e. pulses that look like the repeated pressing of a button when the pot is moved) by FS. If it isn't for these trim controllers, it's because the device manufacturer chose not to convert the pot movement to pulses. He made an FS device, some of whose controllers can't be used with FS. It looks to me like Saitek screwed the pooch on this one. John EDIT: I've been referring to Saitek - sorry for the confusion - on re-reading I see the offending manufacturer is Logitech. JDA Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Grrrr... Write a review and mark them DOWN for shipping! Well, I finally pestered them into giving me a little info today. Of the 5 items I've ordered (and this shop wasn't the cheapest, by far) totalling Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,498 Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Hi JD That is bad, I can totally understand where you are coming from. The problem nowadays is with everything being price driven the service goes out of the window, what makes it worse is when you have to pay through the nose to get that service and they still fail. Grrrr, you got me at it now Does this retailer have a "High street" presence? Joe Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Price, Quality, Service - pick any two... JD, can you just cancel the order. If you paid with a credit card I think you can do that and your card company will take care of the leg work - your account just gets credited. John Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I have now agreed to wait until the weekend before cancelling. I don't use credit cards - I don't like the things. Debit cards only, for me - makes sure I keep control of the readies, and no-one charges me to pay with it. Okay, I have less to fall back on in the event of a problem, but I can live with that. Whenever possible on the 'net I use Paypal and am covered by their buyer protection scheme. Looking forward very much to getting my G940, Saitek Radio panel and switch panel :dance: Well, thanks for your words of support/understanding, guys. I'll be sure to let you know how brilliant the G940 is JD PS - sorry, Joe, forgot to answer - no, they are online only - though it may be possible to visit their premises. Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted July 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 The weeks' up, the kit hasn't arrived and my X52 stick has given up the ghost. Good job I'm busy with other, non-flying, FSX things for a while. Just making my installation and add-ons more streamlined and better looking. Then there's my VAC profile to improve on and my control panel to rewire. Plenty to keep me occupied on the apron JD Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted August 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 For some reason, I gave them a 4th ( :smile: ) week to get this panel. That runs out at the weekend. Looks like I'll be cancelling and buying my G940 from ebuyer instead ( Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Heya JD, What you have posted there is a CockpitSonic 737 Overhead. CockpitSonic&FlyEngravity are probably the two most trusted and most expensive cockpit brands out there. The highest price I ever saw in a FS website was AviationMegastore; A hydraulic platform weighing in at Link to post Share on other sites
JD_LincsUK 0 Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Well, today I have finally cancelled my order with Overclockers UK. I will never shop there again. They have screwed me around for a month now, selling their one remaining panel after I had ordered one (it said on the site they had one left - whether that was true or not, who knows?), and then not sending a single message to let me know what was happening - in 4 weeks! I had to phone their 0871 number - once a week - to find out, and even then, they weren't honest with me. On Monday, they told me they would get me one this week, even if it lost them money (yeah yeah :smile: ) and today they have finally admitted (after I asked again) that they don't know when or if they will have any more. Order cancelled. As soon as I have my money back, I'll be getting the G940 from ebuyer - I can guarantee I'll have it the next day and won't even pay for the delivery! BTW - despite ordering Link to post Share on other sites
Aircraft Aviation 2 Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Well, today I have finally cancelled my order with Overclockers UK. I will never shop there again. Overclockers UK! Why didn't you say so! would you belive I almost ordered a computer from them? Disastrous fail of a company. Link to post Share on other sites
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