I'm still confused about Flight?

[M31 0]

I have not got a clue what MS division of Flight are doing right now? Not a clue and i don't think they know themselves ... its probably a big gamble for them?

Divide and Conquer?

When I first read the true report of what every Flight simmer on the planet thought would be a late successor to FSX, we all assumed it was an arcade cop out, guys on premier flight sim sights like the big A .... I'm scared to mention their name now because he has started lawyer sue speak against some members and has went on a banning spree for many who speak against Flight.

I've not looked too much at Flight Sim.com, but some of the same people post there ... probably here too ... please dont take offence.

My take on things for MS Flight was good to start with ... I was one of the few folks that liked FSX even from the start, but following what MS Flight is rapidly becoming is pretty enlightening.

There is a guy with initials BL on the big A sight that conceded this was not for him, then two days later when he got a beta copy again, he was publicly talking down to posters about their expectations of Flight, because he knew better (this guy is a man of the cloth too!) there is a Female flight simmer there too who fights the Flight corner very well ... this will always get male supporters BTW ... and i mean no offence to Female flight simmers here ... but it does happen over there.

There has been a big banning spree by the owner of the big A sight who are against MS Flight negatives for one reason or another ... I just hope for his sake the ultra positive vibes the beta testers there post are true ... for his sake ... I'm no rookie, but after the fall out ... and I don't even think he knows for sure, there will still be small community sites like this with a positive attitude to how PC ... not X-Box or PS-3 simulation should go forth.

To be honest ... I think Avsim has finally sold out ... its lost all credibility from me for sure.

[M31 0]

My main concerns are ... Why did MS mislead us for so long with only scenery clips of Hawaii ... if they were upfront and honest about the arcade content from the beginning, why couldn't they have posted that at the start too? ... If they had showed at least one shot with golden hoops and treasure chache that the content its now become, they would at least be putting this sim out on honest ground and honest expectations.

They mislead us from the start ... or they changed their minds halfway through the project ... AGAIN.

Despite all the positive vibes the big A site puts forth, the future of MS Flight is in serious doubt now ... lets never forget the MS machine can lie through their teeth when needed.

We never got anything like that with FSX, and yes it was a MS Publicity shot for their DX10 update .. that got reworded to a DX10 preview

One thing MS do well ... is shift goal posts.

They had to let the cat out of the bag at beta testing phase I suppose .. but even now, they are still trying to be ultra secrative with what goes on ... as if any real Flight Simmer cares anymore?

I know there is at least one Flight beta tester here who stays sthumm ... and i respect that, but for all the supposed NDA (with suger on top ) we see on the big A site ... its quite easy to spot the blabermouths who know better than us, and point it out everyday when they get the chance

I've done my share of beta testing both hardware and software for Flight Sim ... it was hard work if you did it right and I'd not want to do it again for any free copy.

Definitly, some of the MS Flight beta testers are old MS FSX and FS9 beta testers, who love to talk down to anyone on their protetected forums who doubt the people that gave them a free copy ... if they spent half as much time actually testing the game as they spend putting folk down on forums ... I'd have a bit more respect for them ... I guess ... i know of at least one other semi serous game forum I visit where one guy got an MS Flight beta invite ( it looks like they were dishing them out quite liberally and randomly ) ... who has went from pure arcade to now trying to be an ultra serious flight sim fan in 5 seconds ... he wont say it, but he's well pleased he got this lucky dip at Flight beta and suddenly is posting on Avsim defending MS to the hilt

Its a load of tosh IMHO

[ddavid 149]

Here's an AVSIM post that compares FSX with FLIGHT. It's quite good:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/349102-september-fsx-and-flight-comparison-screenshots/

Cheers - Dai.

[aeromax 10]

Looks awesome ! Let's see what happens.

[rabbitc 0]

My thoughts: Why is it that whenever a new flight sim is released by Microsoft, it ends up becoming a big 'Battle Royale' between so-called 'enlightened' third-party developers, self-proclaimed 'community leaders' and the development team of Microsoft itself.

At one time, I was very deeply involved within the flightsim community; particularly on the VATSIM side of things and took part in a number of initiatives which I choose not to discuss at the moment. I respect what all these people have done but in terms of lambasting Microsoft for 'letting them down' one way or another, my question to them is 'Just who the hell do you think you are?'

Microsoft created a product with their own money, created for a market of their own choosing. Whether a site sides with or against is ultimately irrelevant to me. Avsim wants to make money as far as I can see and that is where cross-promotional relationships begin and end. I do not recall reading anywhere that Avsim felt it had an obligation to remain completely objective as a business. It does what it does according to the inclinations of it's owners and operators. Those who do not feel it serves them should choose not to participate in their services. That doesn't mean I don't think they're 'selling out' - I do - it's just, does it really matter? While I think there's certainly call for independent review, if I was running one of the largest websites of the flightsim community as a day job, the last thing I'd want to do is pee on the cornflakes of one of the largest flight simulation developers - that's just bad business.

At the time that I was heavily involved in the flightsim community, I had the misfortune to meet some of it's more despicable members who were, in my opinion, highly deluded about their importance to the community and counter-productive in with respect to promoting the well-being of the community in general. I also read several comments from noted people such as Orbx (not the members I'm referring to) and see that at one point they were 'shut out' and felt generally ignored. Again, that's fine but where exactly did Microsoft ever commit to an obligation to consult with the 'community', whether it be consumers or developers, to the effect of influencing product design? Microsoft certainly don't do this with any other product nor does any company anywhere do this. To some extent, this DID happen with FSX (to a fault) and I believe the development cycle was an absolute disaster because the project got heavily sidetracked, gold-plated and become a hulking mess requiring a coding calvary to come in and repair the sim at great expense. Again, this all comes down to the fact that a company does what a company does - end of story. Some people will like it - others won't.

'Flight' will be what it is and it will meet success without question. I have decided to reserve ALL judgement until the product is fully installed on my own PC and I have had an opportunity to put it through it's paces. Ironically, it is unlikely that I will appreciate most (if not all) of the non-sim additions (anything other than graphical/performance improvements) but I would not hold this against the product provided the core sim experience is available. If the core sim experience is not, then I will halt further interest and move on or at least, stick with FSX until something better comes along. I'm certainly not going to stress over it and by George, I'm not about to spit venom in every direction purely because a company didn't make the decisions I was hoping for.

If there was one message I would send to large contingent of the more vocal members of our ever-changing 'community' - it would be 'Grow Up'

No slight against you, Colin - just my thoughts and general distaste for deranged bullies of the flightsim world. Of course, you are quite right to voice discontent against anyone who would threaten lawsuits - but karma in business has a way of working itself out sometimes. For those who want to offer criticism in any form - I'd recommend they find a friendlier venue and let rabid dogs froth.

[M31 0]

No slight against you, Colin - just my thoughts and general distaste for deranged bullies of the flightsim world. Of course, you are quite right to voice discontent against anyone who would threaten lawsuits - but karma in business has a way of working itself out sometimes. For those who want to offer criticism in any form - I'd recommend they find a friendlier venue and let rabid dogs froth.

No worries Devon, your as entitled to your opinion as anyone else.

I was pretty dissapointed when it was confirmed the direction MS are going with Flight but I quickly got over it, its still nice to vent or even just discuss with other enthusiasts though

I too will be downloading it on or around its release but honestly don't expect much more than a fun half hour and then quickly bore of it, but if others love it, all good and well ... just that I'd be very surprised if it takes off the way MS expect it to, and they must expect it to be a big success or they would never have went this far.

I honestly don't think we'd have seen this direction for Flight if Bill Gates were still in charge, but we have what we have and despite a shakey start for FSX its a pretty mature platform now that is still getting excellent add-ons released and will do for a few years yet (Just got confirmation my Playsims VFR Scotland South has been posted ) and perhaps the best is yet to come with Prepar3D 2.0, especially if Lockheed Martin can sort out a more public user friendly license.

After trying the X-Plane demo I don't think its for me, but we'll wait and see how it develops, Aerofly looks a bit raw, but for a first serious stab at flight simulation from a company with expertise in flight physics, albeit simulating Model Aircraft flight physics I wish them all success and I'll be buying this one sooner rather than later.

Cheers.

[rabbitc 0]

I completely agree re Bill Gates - I think Microsoft has been sliding ever since Ballmer took over tbh. Everything is being driven towards a) Xbox and b) 'Family Entertainment'

In addition to simming, I have been an avid console gamer and I am appalled and how badly Xbox division is being run. Microsoft seems so intent on chasing Apple, Google and Nintendo that they appear to have completely lost all sense of direction.

How stupid things are getting can be summed up in one word: 'Bing'

I still can't get that image of Ballmer's CES 2011 appearance saying 'We bing! We bing! ...and we bing!'

When a company goes down this route and is dead serious about it, how much hope can we have really?

I'll certainly look towards Prepar3D 2.0 albeit prohibitively expensive. I definitely have no interest in flying dangerously close to balloons with the aviation equivalent of a vespa.

[M31 0]

Thinking about it again ... I think a lot of Flight sim enthusiasts including me (especially those of us who were in the series from early days) took it for granted that there would always be a Flight Simulator successor, it was for a long long time a two year holding pattern for each release (near enough) and when the news that Aces were sacked well into the making of what would have been FS11 it was a bit of a shock for flight simulator series addicts like me, if things had went as they did we'd probably be onto FS12 by now and looking at FS13 or more!!

But nothing lasts forever ... and you know what Devon, that argument we had a long time ago about how you were against FSX when it was new and FS9 was still king ... I can see where you were coming from now, the silver lining to this dark cloud is that FSX has had all this extra time to mature, than if it had been the same old FS two year release schedule, fair play to you there.

Of course as hardware technology marches on, even what we will get with Prepar3D and OrbX can only do so much, eventually we will need (or just want) a global general aviation simulator with all the trimmings that only future hardware can give, and if Microsoft cant help us out in the future this way ... that's a real shame IMHO but not the end of the world.

We've got at least one other new player with much promise, we still have the venerable X-Plane and Aerosoft might just resume production of their sim ... I'm eternally hopeful for the future

[rabbitc 0]

Yes - and...The BIGGEST shame in all of this is at LONG LAST we finally have a 'simulator' developed from the ground-up with DX11, in 64-bit with multi-core support inherent to the code and we find out it's NOT A SIM!

Surprise surprise - it runs smoother and better on same equipment than FSX could ever possibly hope to do.

...and they serve it up for the kiddies.

I wish X-plane could be the replacement for me - but even on last demo I STILL find the physics to be completely off. There's plenty of math in there on calculating 'blade theory' but very little (if any) to govern structural integrity and drag. One flight in the B200 proved to me that X-Plane is still not up to the job - that is unless a Beechcraft pilot can come forward and confirm that you CAN INDEED roll a turboprop passenger aircraft like just like an F18.

[mutley 4,498]

>roll a turboprop passenger aircraft like just like an F18.

Only if you're plummeting towards Earth at 300kts

[rabbitc 0]

>roll a turboprop passenger aircraft like just like an F18.

Only if you're plummeting towards Earth at 300kts

Give me a little credit, Mutt....

I was only putting the airplane through it's paces and WHOOPS! - Look at that, 4 barrel rolls in 5 seconds.

...and I recovered the plane.