What am I doing wrong?

[dogtrack 345]

Using Mega2 scenery. Flying the default Beech58. Daytime and fair weather.

 

Depart KSAF (Santa Fe), altitude 6500 ft approx for KTUS (Tuscon). The aircraft barely gets up to rotation speed before running out of tarmac. Total lack of power even with gear up and in level flight. Get stick shake if I try to climb. Rotation attempted both with and without Carb Heat (H key), also with and without Fuel Pumps on. It makes no difference what so ever. 

 

Have tried at KLAX just out of curiosity...get off the tarmac no problem. So it has to be me not doing something I should do. Never encountered this before but come to think of it I don't think I have ever started a flight so high. Though that said, I have flown much higher enroute without any problem. And indeed I arrived at Santa Fe from Salt Lake City without any problem the day before.

 

Have checked all key & controler assignments...no problem there.  

 

 

[jaydor 345]

Try leaning the mixture as you are over 3000' so it should be lean, full prop and double your flaps ratio, hold your brake to full on and push to full power before release.  It is because you are starting @ such a high altitude and you also need a longer run on the tarmac to get the lift, try same altitude but longer runway if you are running out of runway again.  Or a more powerful aircraft.. Although the aircraft you are using should be OK..?

 

[allardjd 1,853]

Prior to takeoff, similar to a mag check, for each engine set as high an RPM as you can hold with the brakes and lean to maximize RPMs.  Don't touch the mixture after that except to go leaner, until it's time to descend.  Take-off at those mixture settings.

 

John

 

 

[dogtrack 345]

Thanks for the suggestions.....will spend some time later today applying them. Get back to you later.

[David TRIGGS 0]

You might also check your aircraft loadings at this height. How many passengers are you with? how much baggage? how much more fuel than you need have you? ... (look in your FSX aircraft menu) ... but, as has been said, the default Baron 58 should be able to get off at this height!

By the way ... just how long is this airfield ......... ??

David

[dogtrack 345]

Well I have had fun & games !! 

 

Initial attempt on Rwy 10/28, 6301 ft, ended in the fence at the end. Using Lean mix, card heat, fuel pumps & full flaps....just made it up to 60Knts.

 

2nd attempt on Rwy 15/33, 6316 ft....almost made it up to 65Knts.

 

3rd attempt on Rwy 2/20, 8366 ft,....reached 80Knts and got some lift right at the end of the runway. Finished up stalling while trying to gain height (Feel There really is cool) and pancaked....oohhh deaaarr.

 

4th attempt, as attempt No3. But this time engaged AP as tyres left the tarmac (preset for straight ahead and VS 150 FPM). YES we got there. It was still a struggle but we continued to gain altitude. Though it took several minutes for the speed to creep up to 115Knts. Normally cruises at around 180Knts....about another 30 mins to Tuscon, hope the Bar is open

 

@david...aircraft was unladen, however, carrying full fuel load. Could well be a contributing factor.

 

Thanks all for your suggestions.

 

[Andrew Godden 934]

Arnie,

 

Try it without flaps, and certainly not full flaps...the extra drag is killing your speed.  At 6,500 ft, your mixture setting should be about 50% and unless it's cold / icing conditions, don't use carb heat.

 

Oh, and keep trying.

 

There is a mission in FSX with the "Baron" that involves climbing to altitude to clear the mountain ranges and I still struggle with it.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[jaydor 345]

Have you tried a different aircraft?

[dogtrack 345]

Yes tried the Extra, only made it to 110Knts, should be able to reach 200Knts. Was less of a struggle to leave the ground though. 

[dogtrack 345]

@Andrew. Yes have tried without flaps and it made little if any difference. Not a phenomena I have encountered before. Have flown many times in Switzerland without problems. However, just had a look on GE and I see that the elevation for Geneva and Sion are only 1300 & 1500 ft. Must say that surprised me, thought they would have been higher.

 

So I guess 6500 ft makes a massive difference to what I have been used to. We live and learn. Shall keep a closer eye on elevations in future.

[brett 2,284]

My only suggestion would be to refresh the aircraft, close out of FSX completely, shut down your PC, restart and try again.

 

Have you tried a nearby airport or changing back to the default scenery, could be a problem with the scenery itself. Just guessing here.

[allardjd 1,853]

6,500' elevation, relatively short runway, normally aspirated engines... not too surprising, really.  One notch of flaps is probably the recommended setting for that - check the POH.  As others have said, leave carb heat off - it robs power and is not necessary at high throttle settings.

 

Did you have RW WX turned on?  High, hot and humid all work against aircraft performance. 

 

John

[brett 2,284]

Just tried it using default scenery. Same aircraft, rwy15, props at 100%, mixture at 61%, one notch of flap, +3.2 trim and was up before the runways crossed.

REX=87*F, 39dp, 9kts wind head on 

 

Last time I had trouble getting off the ground, although I hate to admit it, my props were at the lowest setting. oops    

[allardjd 1,853]

Did you notice what kind of manifold pressure you were pulling?

 

John

[dogtrack 345]

Will turn the scenery off and try default later on. Yes I do use RW weather, always. Can't remember what the Manifold Pressure was off hand but did check it at the time. Saw nothing to cause concern.

 

@brett...will try your setting both with default and MSE2. Shall also create the same flight at Holloman AFB (KHMN) which is just a tad over 4000 ft and on the edge of the White Sands desert...just out of curiosity.

[brett 2,284]

Did you notice what kind of manifold pressure you were pulling?

John

If you're asking me, I didn't look. Could have used more trim because I had to pull it up when I hit 75-80 knots. Never have gotten the hang of choosing the right trim setting but I am fast with the thumb.   I did have to pick up the flaps right after I got the gear up and make a shallow ascent to maintain that speed without stalling but it was not as scary as some of Andrews South American rally flights  .

 

I should have played around with a few more take offs to get it just right but time was limited when I did the test. Not used to doing this with full tanks at that altitude I guess.

[dogtrack 345]

Departing KSAF with Photo Scenery:-

                                                             MP = 23HG, RPM = 2700 at full throttle, CHT = 150, Speed = 75Knts by 6000 ft, VS = 150fpm, Auto Mix...Rotation laboured.

 

Departing KSAF with Default Scenery :- 

                                                                Identical to above.

 

Departing KHMN with Default Scenery:-

                                                               MP = 30HG, RPM = 2700 at full throttle, CHT = 150, Speed = 85Knts by 6000 ft, VS = 300fpm, Auto Mix...Rotation comfortable.

 

Departing KHMN with Photo Scenery:-

                                                              MP = 26HG, everything else as above.

 

Repeated KSAF flight with just 25% of fuel capacity ( all previous flights with full fuel capacity ). Engine still labouring but rotation very comfortable.

 

No peculiarities encountered at Tuscon KTUS or Phoenix KPHX.

 

Anyway, enough of this, I am off to KGCN and have a shuffty around the Grand Canyon....

 

 

 

 

[jaydor 345]

KSAF

 

I used default scenery, Lancair Legacy. first notch flaps, mixture lean (almost zero), full prop.  Full power then brakes off, got lift off @ 85knots.  Runway 28 fair weather, baro 29.92: OAT 2 Degrees:

 

 

 

 

[brett 2,284]

I am wondering if MScenery adds a bit of wheel friction. It is a puzzling set of statistics that Arnie has shown us.

[David TRIGGS 0]

Bonjour dogtrack,

Yes, "hot & high" airfields can be killers, especially with short runways ... !! Having said that you should be able to take off at 6500 feet in the default Baron even with 2 people abord!... before you try again:-

1 ... Check fuel load is not unnecessarily high (eg max 25%)

2 ... Check your trim is set for take off (slightly "up/back-nose-up")

3 ... Check outside temperature is not excessivly high (max 20degC)

4 ... Check flaps are fully retracted (or, if runway is really short, at max setting one)

5 ... Check props are at max high and mixture leaned (ie just short of engine running rough)

6 ... Check carb is off (never on on a takeoff!)

7 ... Check you are taking off into Wind (and no excessive cross-Wind)

8 ... Check (just before take-off) that throttle is at max with brakes on ...

9 ... Use as much of the runway as possible (ie start even before the numbers!)

7 ... Ask (discretely) how heavy is your passenger, and has he/she brought any heavy luggage on board ... ??

I'll give this takeoff a try on my simulator this week ... let the forum know haw you are getting on ... and then you can try a take off off at LUCKLA (Himalayas) at more than 14,000 ft I believe ............ !!!!

David

[David TRIGGS 0]

Well, following my previous post, here are my check flight results:-

At KSAF Santa Fe Municipal ... height=6351ft, runway 02/2 length unknown (I don't have the plate, but itlooked pretty long to me), 13h00 fine and sunny ... in the default Beech Baron 58.

4 passengers at 77kg each = 308kg / no baggage / fuel at 57%, 109 kilo in each tank = 218kg ... gross t/o weight = 2300kg;

FLIGHT 1

Wind 324/2 no gusting / 1013 / temp standard 15degC/dew point 5degC (which at this height becomes 2degC)/ flaps zero / prop max / mixture full /

... Absolutely no problem with lift off around 95knots

FLIGHT 2

as before but with local temp 27degC

... again no problem, with lift off around 100 knots

FLIGHT 3

as before, but with local temp a more likely 37degC

... difficulty starting but OK with mixture fully leaned, with lift off around 105 knots

In my opinion, local temperature is of critical importance at airfield at this height ...... ie always check the OAT shown on your cockpit panel ... !!!!

So ... ?? ...... David

[dogtrack 345]

You may have a point David. Must say I never took a note of the outside temp.

 

Perhaps have another try when I get back from my tour of Hawaii.