Radio challenged C-130 in AH

[Quickmarch 488]

Strange things happening in AH with my Captain Sim C-130. I took my first AH flights in this aircraft this afternoon and ran into the same problem on both flights:

After a normal cockpit preparation and engine start, including radio check, and frequency entry. Shortly after takeoff I loose all radio, autopilot, GPS functions. As well, I lost the gear hydraulics and had to pump the gear down by hand on both flights. I cannot tune the radios, nav or comm. The ground tuned frequencies work just fine. I just can't change them in flight. None of the backup hydraulics will cycle the gear, but the flaps work normally.

I've flown this aircraft around quite a bit and do not have the same problems when I load it the recommended way (default C172, cold and dark, then switch to the C130). The significant difference seems to be the AH loading of the aircraft. You cannot load a Cessna then switch as you can do in free flight.

Any gems of wisdom out there?

The AI pilot Lauren "Crash" Pethard seems to have no problems with it, aside from bending a few small (expensive) parts from time to time.

If I can't solve this one, I'll have to give up flying it in AH as it is a bear to have to fly it manually all the time.

I did a search for "C130" on the AH forum and came up empty handed (as far as this problem is concerned).

[allardjd 1,853]

Generators on line and the correct switch line-ups on the electrical panel?  Sounds like you're running on the battery bus and the battery is going south on you.  You have to go to "Reset" with each generator switch before going to "On".

 

John

[Quickmarch 488]

Thanks JA,

This is not the problem. Battery indicator still shows lots of power available and the fault lights are all extinguished, also the generator voltage gauges read normal.

This issue only occurs when AH loads FSX and the C130. I can fly it all day if I load the default C172 and go flying without Air Hauler getting involved.

[allardjd 1,853]

Does AH force you to start it cold and dark? I'm still thinking maybe something in the switch lineups. The hydraulic pumps are all electric. Everything you're losing is electric driven.

 

John

[Quickmarch 488]

That's the strange part. All electrical indicators are nominal, all switches are correctly set. Believe me, I've checked every switch on the panels while holding, I was lucky yesterday, both approaches were in reasonable visibility so the ILS was not really needed.

 

Another interesting thing (I'm going from memory here): If you load the aircraft into FSX and do absolutely nothing - no external power, no battery on line, then go to the 2D cockpit and click on the little GPS symbol to open the GPS window. You'll get a hot GPS, complete with display. When the "glitch" occurs, the GPS will be blank as in no power.

 

The first time this happened, I was only three miles from takeoff when I tried to switch frequencies on the ADF. Then I noticed the gear was still down as the speed was lower than it should have been. Then the whole thing went to hell in a handcart. The second time it happened, the gear had retracted (I usually hit the switch as soon as I have positive rate). The indication on the second occurrence was signified by the warning message that the DG was not correct (the tool tips, or whatever, feature is on).

 

To answer your question: Yes. AH forces you to shut the aircraft down before making a delivery. AH then insists that you exit FSX before the next cycle. This way you wind up with an aircraft in the same state you left it - C&D (or, at least, not running). I have the check box ticked in "Options" to start the aircraft from its last location. The only way I can see to change this is to edit the .cfg file so that the electrical is hot and the engines running on loading (not sure if this can actually be done). The C130 doesn't seem to respond to ^E, ^E1, ^E2...... so it appears that option is also not available.

 

As I said earlier, this glitch only happens in AH. Flying the C130 in FSX "Free Flight" presents no problems.

[Quickmarch 488]

Ok. Here goes part 1 - If I get the time, there may be a part 2 sometime soon, otherwise just before Xmas.

 

One thing I found with the experiments this afternoon is that ^E does start the engines. What it does not do is set up the panels, ie: the engines will be running with no generators online. All the other little things, like anti-ice, hydraulics, etc, are not configured either.

 

C130_OH1.jpg is how the C&D cockpit loads, note the battery switch, the generator switches and the engine bleeds.

 

 

 

On the instruction ^E, the gyros powered up and the engines started 1,2,3,4. The overhead panel was unchanged, so I configured it per the checklist. See C130_OH2.jpg. Note that all electrical power is nominal.

 

 

 

C130_PF1.jpg and C130_OH3.jpg are at completion of the Before Taxi Checklist (OH is unchanged). Flaps are set, here. Radios are a typical setup for a CYCD departure to the south.

 

 

 

 

C130_Lineup Checks.jpg show the centre console setup and hydraulics panel just before taxiing (and takeoff). Major changes here are to the hydraulics panel (brakes and anti-skid). 

 

 

I tried taking a video of the takeoff. It was my first attempt at one and it is pretty poor. For some reason the ASI fluctuates all over the map. In any case, I threw it out. The other thing is that there was a nav radio (ADF) morse identifier playing in the background that was not there when I did the takoff.

 

All in all, there's nothing wrong with the simulation. Except that I could not duplicate the electrical failure. Now I'm worried about trying it again with AirHauler as I'm not into self-flagellation. I will do it, though and try the ^E start sequence to see what will happen. Maybe tomorrow, it's too late right now to get into it as I'm going to have to duplicate everything without starting with the default 172. I'll let AH load the aircraft as it sees fit.

 

One last thing: I'm wondering if FSX saves the last cockpit configuration associated with a specific model. If this were the case, I might be able to shut down the C130 properly, then subsequent loads would reflect this. I could save it as the default aircraft, but that may open a completely different can of lumbricinas. I might be better off to edit the .cfg file.

[allardjd 1,853]

QM,  I think the problem is the lineup of the two switches in the bottom row, just to the left of the four generator load meters.  Those are the AC bus distribution selectors.  I haven't got my FS9 C-130 loaded so can't look in real time.  As I recall, one of those is normally lined up with the indicator bar horizontal and one with the bar vertical, but don't remember which is which.   I suspect that a CTRL-E start in AH may not line those up correctly.  If those are right in AH and if the generators are on line, you should be good. 

 

If you have it loaded in AH just do a Fly To Airport, with no load aboard. It will only cost you fuel, but uses a LOT of fuel. You don't even need to go anywhere - you can land back where you started from.

 

Another possible way is by creating an Easy Mode test company in AH - sell the Lear, go cheap the base and see if you can lease the C-130.  AH will let you go $100K into the red too.  It's a throw-away company, just delete it after testing.

 

John

 

[Quickmarch 488]

Thanks JA,

 

You're right - the first pic is as loaded by simply choosing the aircraft from the FSX menu and loading it without going to the default C172 first.

 

However, the second pic, where I've configured the panel after hitting ^E and starting the engines shows the inverter switches in the correct configuration. Here's a quote from the tutorial in the Capt Sim simulation:

 

"1. Inverters - SET

This require two steps:
1.1. Copilot inverter switch - ESSENTIAL AC BUS
Knob's yellow stripe matching with panel's yellow stripe. 
1.2. AC INST & ENGINE FUEL CONTROL INVERTER switch - ESSENTIAL DC BUS
Knob's yellow stripe matching with panel's green stripe."

 

So, what do we know?

 

The simulation loads in a configuration that is neither cold and dark (where the inverters would be "off") or in a ready-for-taxi condition after the engines have been started.

 

My next step is to take your advice, load the aircraft in AH and fly it somewhere without a cargo onboard. I'll give that a go this afternoon/evening and take some screen shots of the panels. It will be interesting to see if electrical power is lost at wheels up on that flight.

 

[allardjd 1,853]

The first time I did a cold, dark start on that thing, using the APU (they call it a GTC - Gas Turbine Compressor, but it has a generator too), instruction book in hand, it took well over 30 minutes to get to the point of being ready to taxi. It "feels" right - very realistic and technically logical - there were no jarring disconnects that didn't make technical sense. I got to the point, with practice and a good checklist, where I could do it in about 10-12 minutes, which would probably be rushing through it in the real-world.

 

The generators on the engines are all DC. Most of the big loads in the aircraft require AC power and that is supplied through four inverters, one for each generator. That's the normal line up, with DC busses fed directly from the generators and AC busses fed from the inverters.

 

Since the C-130 has constant speed engines I'm not sure why they did not opt for AC generators on the engines, and maybe later models did, but it is what it is on the Captain Sim models.

 

John

[Quickmarch 488]

I hear you, I don't think I've got the C&D start to taxi time down quite that low, yet.

 

I wonder if there are different series aircraft modeled for FS9 vs FSX. The following is a reprint from the manual supplied with my version (apologies if I'm stepping on someone's intellectual property):

 

Quote from Pg 47, CSC 130 Manual 2.

 

The internal electrical power supply for aircraft use comes from five AC generators or from the battery. Each 

engine drives one 40-kilovolt ampere (kVA) AC generator and the air turbine motor (ATM) drives one 20kVA 

AC generator. The air turbine motor-driven generator is basically rated at 20kVA. However, because the air 

turbine motor fan provides sufficient cooling air, the generator is rated in this installation at 30kVA for 

continuous operation.

 

Power from these AC generators is used to provide electrical power for aircraft use: 

•  28V dc;

•  200/115V,380/420-Hz, three-phaseprimary AC;

•  115V,400-Hz,single-phase,secondary and primary AC.

The four engine-driven AC generators are connected through a series of relays to four AC buses; 

•  the left-hand AC bus, 

•  the essential AC bus, 

•  the main AC bus, 

•  and the right-hand AC bus.

 

The relay system operates in such a manner that any combination of two or more ofthe engine-driven AC

generators will power all four of the buses. If only one generator is operating, it will power only the essential

AC bus and the main AC bus.The air turbine motor-driven AC generator will power only the essential AC bus 

at anytime. All in-flight controls for operation of the electrical system are located on the electrical control

panel on the overhead panel in the flight station. 

UnQuote

 

Interesting how many frequencies they use.

[allardjd 1,853]

I think the 420 Hz reference is in error and should be 60 Hz.  60 and 400 is a pretty common setup.

 

I need to go back and look.  I may be in error about DC generators, but seem to remember that there are some large, high capacity inverters.  Those must be used for something.  It's been a while since I've flown this thing and need to refresh my memory banks.

 

John

[Quickmarch 488]

You may be right on the frequency, however the freq meter reads way up there. It is very hard to actually see the readings but the top of the scale looks like 480.

 

I took your advice and flew with no cargo in AH.

 

1. Load the C130 via AH, C&D, then fire up the aircraft according to the checklist. All appears nominal until 200 to 300 yards into the taxi. First indication is the tip that your DG is out and you should hit the "D" key to correct. Check the GPS - no power, Check the radios - power but you can`t change the freqs. You can still takeoff and fly but it`s all manual, including the gear (but for some unknown reason, not the flaps, they work normally).

 

2. Load the C130 via AH, C&D, then fire up the aircraft by doing absolutely nothing except hitting CNTL-E. The engines start, 1234 and the electronics work. Don`t bother with looking at the various overhead panels. The plane flies just fine.

 

Unfortunately, I do not like the Cntl-E routine, I`d rather start the engines myself (as well as tune the radios, monitor the course, and make my own coffee).

 

Without AH, everything works as advertised. Load the aircraft C&D from the FSX menu. Follow the checklist to configure for flight. All is sweetness and light.

[allardjd 1,853]

Bizarre...  more and more I'm suspecting the flight file sent to FS from AH has something missing.   For most AC it doesn't matter, but for some, something is haywire.

 

John

[Quickmarch 488]

If you`re talking to Slopey, please ask him what he thinks.

 

This is not a life-threatening issue. Really doesn`t matter. I can still fly the plane in AH. I just have to remember to fire it up with cntl-E. The AI pilots are makin bacon with this aircraft and they don`t have any troubles with it. I`ve had a couple of million dollar days recently, due to having this aircraft in my fleet.

 

It sounds like this is not too terribly uncommon. There are references to similar problems on the Captain Sim forum and some ``fixes`` such as: Load the 2D, cycle through VC and outside spot view, then back to working with the systems. I tried them all in AH - no joy.