British Phenons coming

[jaydor 345]

Embraer House colour:



Green swish:



Will be in the Library soon..

[Christopher Low 63]

Very nice, James. By the way, what is that Phenom like to hand fly?

[jaydor 345]

Very nice, James. By the way, what is that Phenom like to hand fly?

It's a very enjoyable plane to handle, but uses the embedded GPS for flight planning, so no Vnav.

[Christopher Low 63]

I am seriously considering purchasing this plane, considering that Flight1 have deliberately sabotaged the Cessna Citation Mustang installer so that it doesn't work properly in P3D. What I would like to know is whether this plane can be operated in and out of really small airfields like the Mustang can. With a 50 per cent fuel load, I can get the Mustang to stop (and take off) on runways as short as 2000 feet. Can this be achieved in the Phenom? The final approach speed of the Mustang with full flaps was down to something like 93 knots, so it would be nice to know if the Phenom can emulate that.

 

I am also interested in the quality of the sound effects (particularly the engines, but also the rollout sounds on the runway), and how well it performs on the taxiways. I hate aircraft that stand still one second, and then lurch forward when the power is increased by 0.1%. How smooth is the transfer from static to rolling forward?

 

By the way, if I decide to purchase this aircraft, then I would almost certainly be using your G-ADCF paint job

[jaydor 345]

I am seriously considering purchasing this plane, considering that Flight1 have deliberately sabotaged the Cessna Citation Mustang installer so that it doesn't work properly in P3D. What I would like to know is whether this plane can be operated in and out of really small airfields like the Mustang can. With a 50 per cent fuel load, I can get the Mustang to stop (and take off) on runways as short as 2000 feet. Can this be achieved in the Phenom? The final approach speed of the Mustang with full flaps was down to something like 93 knots, so it would be nice to know if the Phenom can emulate that.

 

I am also interested in the quality of the sound effects (particularly the engines, but also the rollout sounds on the runway), and how well it performs on the taxiways. I hate aircraft that stand still one second, and then lurch forward when the power is increased by 0.1%. How smooth is the transfer from static to rolling forward?

 

By the way, if I decide to purchase this aircraft, then I would almost certainly be using your G-ADCF paint job

Try this linc

[Christopher Low 63]

Thanks, James. I had already watched that video, but it doesn't quite give me enough information. For example, that short runway at Courchevel is sloped up quite steeply, and the landing was very hard. I would like to know if the aircraft can be stopped on a level runway of 2000 feet after a normal landing. In addition, I didn't really hear anything when that plane dropped down hard on the runway. There should have been a loud bang at that descent rate!

 

EDIT: I can't see any trim wheels. How do you trim this aircraft??

[jaydor 345]

Thanks, James. I had already watched that video, but it doesn't quite give me enough information. For example, that short runway at Courchevel is sloped up quite steeply, and the landing was very hard. I would like to know if the aircraft can be stopped on a level runway of 2000 feet after a normal landing. In addition, I didn't really hear anything when that plane dropped down hard on the runway. There should have been a loud bang at that descent rate!

 

EDIT: I can't see any trim wheels. How do you trim this aircraft??

I have taken a few shots to help most are self explanatory, I will add when required.

The Trim switch is on each yoke and you can see the trim value at the bottom right of the centre screen engine section.

showing zero trim:

idiot list showing by the trim button on yoke and value on screen.

Aircraft statues screens:

I have switched the engine icing on showing green on the display and set the bleeds to both and YD is set now not showing on the PFD.

Spec sheet, I have not tried a short field landing. Give me a day or 2 to come back..

[remingtonbox 18]

 I would like to know if the aircraft can be stopped on a level runway of 2000 feet after a normal landing.

 

If you drag it in unrealistically, yes, if you fly it by the numbers, no way.

[Christopher Low 63]

When you say "drag it in unrealistically", what do you mean? I am not bothered about sticking to real world rules with respect to minimum take off and landing distances. If I can get the plane to lift off the ground 50 feet before the end of the runway, then that's fine. I just want a decent replacement for the perfectly good Mustang that I should be able to use in P3D. Not covered for use in P3D by the EULA is one thing, but deliberate sabotage to prevent people using it in P3D is unacceptable to me.

 

One other feature that is important to me is the touchdown. Does this plane actually "feel" like it touches down, or does it just "transfer" from air to ground? By this, I mean does it feel like the undercarriage suspension is absorbing the shock?

[Christopher Low 63]

Any further comments, based on the post above?

[dodgy-alan 1,587]

The Phenom is a great little aircraft, I've got a freeware one from some years ago and it really handles nicely. There are many airports that one is not supposed to be able to land at according to the numbers, however by a carefull bit of flying and providing you don't stall many things are possible. The only way to find out is try, Just be ready to goose the throttles if you find yourself running out of room!

[Captain Coffee 2,030]

A good Thrust Reverser adds a lot of length to short fields.

 

[Christopher Low 63]

I have finally made my decision, and a copy of the Carenado Embraer Phenom 100 is heading for my hard disk this evening

[allardjd 1,853]

"Dragging it in..." usually refers to a lower, shallower descent, carrying a lot of extra power at a lower than normal airspeed and a higher than normal angle of attack. It's what happens in the last part of an approach when you mis-judge things and get too low, too soon. You touch down at minimum airspeed and the rollout is pretty short compared to a normal one.

I did it once in the real world in a 152, approaching a very large runway at a large airport I'd never been into before. All the visual cues I was used to at smaller fields were all wrong and the field seemed much closer than it really was. I flew the last half mile in level flight with the VASIs all red, at a pretty low airspeed, carrying almost full power. It's an ugly place to be because if the engine hiccups or there's some unfavorable wind shear, you're not going to make the field. You've given away all the airspeed and altitude "insurance" you should have in your hip pocket during a normal approach.

John

EDIT: It's a very good way to end up on the back side of the power curve, if in fact you aren't already there.

JDA

[Christopher Low 63]

My first impressions of this aircraft are not good. I can't seem to get the trim controls to do anything. Aren't they supposed to control the angle of the ailerons on the tail unit? In addition, the plane slowly rolls to the right after take off, and I can't seem to stop it. Does anyone have any idea what is happening?

[allardjd 1,853]

The roll may be torque effect if you have the reality settings high enough. It's normal.

[Christopher Low 63]

If that's the case, why does this not affect any other aircraft?

[hifly 925]

Correct me if I'm wrong but some twin engine ac have the engines that turn the same direction hence the torque effect. Other ac have engines that turn in opposite directions which cancels the torque. 

[jaydor 345]

My first impressions of this aircraft are not good. I can't seem to get the trim controls to do anything. Aren't they supposed to control the angle of the ailerons on the tail unit? In addition, the plane slowly rolls to the right after take off, and I can't seem to stop it. Does anyone have any idea what is happening?

 

Go back up to the screen shots I made for you and read the first shots where I tell you the trim adjustment is on the yoke, as in the real aircraft.  set to -6 for single person take off.

 

Pulling to the right or left after take off is usually down to joystick settings or wind if you have weather set also check that your fuel tanks are equal. 

 

You adjust the Yaw via the switches shown in the screenshot they are above the flap lever. Trim the aircraft by using the switches before take off.  You can see what the values are at the bottom of the engines list on the centre MFD

 

Use the switches and see what they do, you learn that way..

 

See the trim button on the yoke better and the PTT button works also for ATC. 

 

So don't be disappointed as you have to learn the aircraft and just take your time with it.  Bet you will be enjoying it a lot better next week when you have mastered a bit more.

 

If in doubt give me a shout.. :D

 

Read the documentation, it is in your FSX Carenado folder..

 

Also did you follow the unwritten rule for first load after install.   That is, select the bog standard FSX C172 and load first, then select the Phenom from change aircraft menu, then save you Phenom as default.  Then re-boot FSX (not the computer)

 

PS The tail section movable flaps is called the Elevator not ailerons, Ailerons are on your main wing .

 

[Christopher Low 63]

One aspect of the flight model that is "at odds" with the way that I fly my planes is that the aircraft's nose rises when I reduce power. I can understand why that is the case (and it's probably accurate), but I was hoping that it would react in the same way as the Flight1 Mustang! To be honest, this is just making me more and more angry towards Flight1 for making the Mustang unusable in P3D

 

On a side note, I had a slight "glitch" with the install procedure for the Phenom. It came up with a message at the end. Something about being unable to find an FSX dll or xml file. I am not sure why that happened, as I had selected P3Dv2 in the install options. The install hung there, but I think it was at the end anyway, because the plane appeared to be installed when I checked it.

[jaydor 345]

One aspect of the flight model that is "at odds" with the way that I fly my planes is that the aircraft's nose rises when I reduce power. I can understand why that is the case (and it's probably accurate), but I was hoping that it would react in the same way as the Flight1 Mustang! To be honest, this is just making me more and more angry towards Flight1 for making the Mustang unusable in P3D

 

On a side note, I had a slight "glitch" with the install procedure for the Phenom. It came up with a message at the end. Something about being unable to find an FSX dll or xml file. I am not sure why that happened, as I had selected P3Dv2 in the install options. The install hung there, but I think it was at the end anyway, because the plane appeared to be installed when I checked it.

 

The nose will rise on a reduction of power if you are not on AP, as the aircraft is looking for lift, that's why you have to trim as well as reduce power. If you fail to trim then you will be heading for a stall. 

 

As I said you have to learn to fly the aircraft.  There is nothing wrong with the Phenom as long as you fly it correctly, but that is up to you, if you do not fly it correctly then problems will definitely occur, as in real life.

 

Carenado's flight model is correct..

[Christopher Low 63]

I have no problem with that, Jay. I took a risk that it would fly a lot like the Mustang, but it is appreciably different. Most of the aircraft that I have flown in FS (including the Flight1 Mustang) pitch down when the power is reduced, and that is extremely important to me. Still, you live and learn

[allardjd 1,853]

Most of the aircraft that I have flown in FS (including the Flight1 Mustang) pitch down when the power is reduced, and that is extremely important to me.

 

 

Go read Langewiesche.  An aircraft will seek a constant airspeed unless trim is changed.  If you reduce power, any aircraft will EVENTUALLY return to the same airspeed it was at when the power was changed, assuming it was in "unaccelerated" flight, (i.e, stable with no changes in progress of pitch, roll, yaw or speed).  In most cases, that means an almost instantaneous lowering of the nose and an increased rate of descent.  There will be a brief airspeed excursion but the aircraft, if left to itself will pitch nose down enough to return to the trimmed airspeed.  There may be a fugoid factor where it will hunt for a few cycles above and below but it will do it's best to stabilize itself at the speed it was trimmed to at the point the throttles were moved.

 

In the Phenom, go look at where the engines are - very high in the tail, with their thrust line well above the aircraft longitudinal centerline.  Because of that, thrust results in a nose-down moment, and reduction of thrust will result in a brief nose up pitch change.  However, a short time after that, the nose will come down again as the aircraft seeks it's trimmed airspeed.  

 

Obviously, any change in elevator trim, flaps or pilot manual elevator input will upset the balance and the aircraft will seek some new and different airspeed.  Also, the AP must be off since it will inevitably introduce elevator trim movements.

 

The pitch up is temporary and is due to the thrust line being offset quite a bit from the longitudinal centerline.  Sit on your hands for fifteen seconds and the nose will do what you expect it to, I suspect.

 

John

[Andrew Godden 934]

One aspect of the flight model that is "at odds" with the way that I fly my planes is that the aircraft's nose rises when I reduce power. I can understand why that is the case (and it's probably accurate), but I was hoping that it would react in the same way as the Flight1 Mustang!

 

Interestingly, each aircraft has its own unique flight profile and aircraft are designed to be flown in accordance with the particular flight dynamics and procedures specific to each model - even a Cessna R182 RG flies differently to a Cessna 182Q.

 

To not fly accordingly, or adapt the way your fly you planes, is sheer folly.

 

Nevertheless, this would appear to be at odds with the level of realism you are trying to emulate in other spheres of your flying pursuits.

 

As a further example, there are many real world cases where commercial pilots familiar with the Boeing 737 Classic range experienced troubles when manually flying the 737 Next Generation range because of the higher landing speed of the latter.

 

This link will give you an idea of the science and associated formulae applied to each aircraft design and why they should be flown according to their particular flight dynamics and procedures.

[allardjd 1,853]

I think it's accurate, and is down to engine placement. If you throttle back engines that are placed above the longitudinal centerline, a pitch up is going to happen, followed by a pitch down as it seeks it's trimmed airspeed.

I don't think it's broken; I think the RW aircraft must also behave that way.

John