Help with SIDs/STARs

[Lukemeister 6]

Hi guys,

On the PSS/JF 757, when I import an FS flight plan into the FMC and then insert a SID after it, it looks completely wrong? The SID takes the plane well away from the original flight plan and doesn't "connect" up to the proper flight plan at all, meaning i'm left out in the middle of nowhere for nothing!

Does anyone know how to connect the SID to the flight plan so it is one smooth fight path?

Thanks,

Luke.

[allardjd 1,853]

Can you post an example? I don't fly anything that has an FMC, but may still be able to make some sense from it.

 

I know that some STARS can be joined from any of a number of "transitions" and I think at other points too. I don't know, but wonder if a SID or DP can be exited at an intermediate point, or have to be flown to the last waypoint before going to the enroute portion.

 

I'll bet someone out there knows.

 

John

[wisemanp 0]

I don't have the 757 but do fly aircraft with FMCs regularly.

The SID that you are using-does it have the name of the first waypoint on your flightplan. If not, this is the problem. As FS Flight Plans are not geared up for the use of SIDS/STARS, it is possible that the first waypoint of your route is not any of the waypoints at the end of SIDS from that airport.

That's why I use an online planner, namely the one in Mutley's Tooldbar's Flightsim Links.

Hope this helps.

[Lukemeister 6]

Thanks guys.

Phil, I downloaded the toolbar however I can't find a link for a flight planner? Could you help me?

Thanks,

Luke.

[wisemanp 0]

Hi Luke, sorry about that, it doesn't seem to be in the toolbar anymore. Here is a link I have found for it:

http://www.flightsimaviation.com/_flight_planner.html

Another large database of routes can be found in the vRoute software that I use when flying online with VATSIM.

[Lukemeister 6]

Thanks very much Phil, that's extremely helpful, moreso as i'm hoping to learn to fly the PMDG 737 soon.

I've done all the stuff on the site, and it's given me this.

Cruise altitude between FL200 and FL200

EGNM (0.0nm) -SID-> POL (17.3nm) -A47-> LIC (78.8nm) -A47->

DTY (119.3nm) -STAR-> EGLL (168.0nm)

Does this mean that in the FMC I type in EGNM, THEN enter the SID for the runway that is active, THEN start putting waypoints in such as POL, LIC and DTY?

What if the SID's last waypoint isn't POL?

Thanks for your co-operation,

Luke.

[mutley 4,498]

Hi Phil & Luke

Sorry I didn't realise I had removed the flight planner from the toolbar :poster_oops: I have added it back in

If you have any other suggestions for the toolbar please shout!

Cheers

[wisemanp 0]

If you have got that route from the online planner, then it is almost certain that the SID will end at POL.

[Lukemeister 6]

Guys, this worked a treat, thank you.

However, I usually only let the FMC do the 'lnav'' parts of the journey, with me adjusting altitudes and speeds.

When I entered the STAR and tuned the ILS, I thought great, a smooth professional landing! however, when I clicked 'app' the FMC came up with something like "RW/APP ERROR" and the plane didn't intercept the glideslope.

Is this because i'm not entering the ILS frequency into the FMC?

If that is the case, how am I supposed to know which runway the ATC controller will give me?

Thanks for your patience.

[wisemanp 0]

Luke, these sort of things generally vary from aircraft to aircraft so I doubt I can helo on this one. However, on some FMCs there is a RAD/NAV page in which you can manually input the ILS frequency.

ATC should tell you to 'expect' a certain runway quite a way away from the airport.

[dgor 0]

Hi Luke,

RW/APP ERROR is something I had a lot of problems with in my early Boeing days Basically it means you haven't got the NAV1/ILS (some addons have a proper ILS box like the real deal but I think the PSS 757 just uses the NAV1 radio) and CRS properly set for the runway. That's what it meant on the PMDG 737 for me anyway. Try to input all this data (ILS freq and course should be available on the FMC approach page) as soon as getting information as to which runway you'll be landing on :-) Remember the flap and speed setting on the approach page too. Remember not all runways have ILS and in some rare cases the FMC will not know that an ILS exists (although it should still intercept in LOC mode).

Dave

[Lukemeister 6]

Thank you Dave,

I have got a bit frustrated with it, as flying a 2 hour flight and then messing it up at the last minute drives me insane!

I think i'll stick to what I usually do, albeit unrealistic.

Thanks chaps.

[dgor 0]

I flew like that for ages Luke until I got the hang of using them! Now I get annoyed if the FMC doesn't have procedures for the airport I am at or going to. What really helped me was getting rid of the unrealistic limitations of FS ATC and switching to Radar Contact v4 (John's excellent review) and using FSBuild for making flightplans as it has a lot of SIDs/STARs included. Programs such as vRoute which show the route the airlines use also have some SID/STAR data for a lot of flightplans.

[Lukemeister 6]

Sorry Dave, I didn't see your message.

RC looks good, but I want to be more confident on STARs to be honest.

Could I set RC up to do what FS does and start giving me headings when getting near the airport and telling me to descend and intercept the ILS?

[allardjd 1,853]

Quote

Could I set RC up to do what FS does and start giving me headings when getting near the airport and telling me to descend and intercept the ILS?

 

Yes, that's pretty much how it works unless you opt to fly the full approach or ask for a different runway or something odd. RC uses flight plans imported from FS or other planners but vectors you to the active runway and does a MUCH better job of that than MSFS ATC. You will typically be vectored to a downwind, base and final, intercepting the localizer some ways out from the marker.

 

It also gives you the option to fly the entire approach procedure, in which case ATC pretty much leaves you alone from the IAF onward, though that is kind of unrealistic. Commercial flights almost always take vectors to the localizer, which keeps traffic flowing. Another alternative in RC is to select "NOTAMS" which in their terminology means pilot discretion in departures and approaches.

 

You might consider going to the RC site. They have their manual on-line as a pdf so you can have a hard look at what it can and cannot do.

 

John

[Lukemeister 6]

Thanks very much John. Hopefully this will resolve my issue with FS ATC vectoring me away from the airport due to large amounts of AI.

[allardjd 1,853]

Running AISmooth helps a little too, Luke. If it detects more than one AC heading for the same runway it is supposed to delay one by commanding a 360, and it will sometimes help keep AI out of your way. It's not a silver bullet, but seems to help a little. I don't think there is a silver bullet, but many small things seem to help.

 

John

[Lukemeister 6]

I have had AISmooth for some time now John, I will make sure I have it running in the background while I fly.

(That's now AS2006, FDC Virtual Cockpit, AISmooth AND Radar Contact running under FS, blimey!)

Radar Contact has been purchased and i'm just downloading it now.

I shall give you all a good run down of how it goes when i've done a flight :wink:

Hope i've made a worthwhile purchase!

[allardjd 1,853]

Radar Contact takes some learning. Don't expect it to be all sweetness and light on the first go-around. Do the tutorials when you can, they're pretty good and will help a lot.

 

The RC controllers tend to be pretty demanding and will give you a little grief if you don't perform to their expectations. Have a thick skin in the beginning and after a few flights it will go MUCH better.

 

John

[Lukemeister 6]

I'd just like the thank John and Dave for recommending probably one of the best add ons for FS2004 I have bought to date.

I've just done a flight from Leeds Bradford to Dublin (short-haul as I was expecting something to go wrong). I imported the real Jet2 route, including the SID out of EGNM, and everything went excellent! ATC vectored me onto the ILS, had a nice smooth touchdown too.

My only gripe is that it doesn't show you where to go on the taxiways like the default ATC does.

[dgor 0]

Hi Luke,

Glad we could be of help :-) Yes, the lack of ground control is my only gripe with it too - although it will give you some cool instructions on some flights (the beauty of RC is that no two flights are ever the same) such as "Follow the Jet2 737" or "After the Delta 777 taxi runway..." I love it!

Dave

[allardjd 1,853]

Now you're beginning to understand why I make airport charts... :yes:

 

John

[Lukemeister 6]

I can see the method in your madness John, i'll definatley printing the ones I need out and using them!

Dave - I thought another beauty of it was the sort of 'limitless' possibilities. For instance, if you were to mess up in default FS, the ATC would just leave you and cancel your IFR, but RC sticks with you and tries to help you out. A brilliant feature I think is being able to declare emergency and announcing you're low on fuel in a hold.

I did lie though, I got told off by the nice lady in Leeds Bradford departure for not having my transponder set correctly :blush

[MartinW 0]

Late response, but don't forget you have to delete the discontinuity.

[allardjd 1,853]

...you have to delete the discontinuity.

:?: :?: :?: