ScruffyDuck 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I am at Microsoft in Seattle. Yesterday Nick Whithome (another MVP) and I visited the Flight Team. The team includes a new Community Manager who we met along with other members of the team. We came away with a much better understanding of where things are. Most of which are, of course, covered by NDA*. However I will say that they are clearly plugged in to, and listening to, the existing community. The team appears to have a higher percentage of licensed pilots than the old FSX team including the Creative Director who spent time as a commercial airline pilot. The folks we met are very passionate about Flight and committed to its future. We will be staying in touch with the contacts we made and NDA permitting will obviously share what we can. *The term NDA gets bandied about and the NDA for beta testers was routinely broken by some folks. Just for the record MVP's like Nick and I are pretty much under the same NDA agreement as Microsoft Employees as to what we can and can't say. Link to post Share on other sites
simmerhead 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I found the ACES guys to be passionate as well, but they got booted nevertheless. I hope there will be some bones thrown out to us old faithfuls, but if the current concept catches on I am scared that flight simming as we know it has a bleak future. If only the Outerra guys could find a few dedicated partners... http://www.outerra.com/forum/index.php?topic=661.0 Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 As posted elsewhere, what MS have done in no way detracts from or devalues our existing software. The add-on market is alive and doing reasonably well. New innovations in software and the inevitable increase in computer horsepower available to us will continue to move the flight sim envelope represented by FSX forward for a while yet, even though the software doesn't permit the machine resources to be fully tapped. Despite that, the add-on developers seem to keep dazzling us frequently. Life is good - maybe not better as a result of MSF, but still good. John Link to post Share on other sites
ScruffyDuck 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 You are correct John. There is no reason why Flight, FSX and FS9 cannot co-exist on one computer. They do not interact and will not affect each other. MS are still selling FSX Gold as far as I know. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,498 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Thanks for your comments Jon, at least MS have not given up on simulated aviation in one form or another and shouldn't be discouraged by the reaction of the "Real as it gets" community . Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Jon, I should have commented on your original post. What you've told us is a very positive development and I appreciate your taking the time to keep us in the loop on this to the extent the NDA permits. That's valuable and positive information. I never completely gave up on MS as the potential source of the next great flight simulator, recognizing that they are in a better position than anyone to do so. If they see it to be in their best interest, they will eventually do that. Thanks very much for sharing what you've seen and heard. John Link to post Share on other sites
britfrog 180 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 i am heartened to hear you say that they are reading and taking on what is written on the internet about flight, hopefully some good , in the form of fs11, will come of it ,now that they can see first hand what a faithfull , outspoken, single minded and supportive group of simmers that they, microsoft has created and have to satisfy. Link to post Share on other sites
simmerhead 0 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sure, we still have FSX, but it would be nice to have a bug free simulator that didn't require an engineering degree to run smoothly . But thanks anyway Jon. Nice of you to chime in. I would imagine that MS didn't expect the degree of negativity that has been coming fom the FS community and I feel bad for those in the Flight team. I know for sure ome of them would have liked to make FS11 instead. Link to post Share on other sites
TedG 0 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 The team appears to have a higher percentage of licensed pilots than the old FSX team including the Creative Director who spent time as a commercial airline pilot. Would you mind asking if he flew his passengers from a third-person perspective? Link to post Share on other sites
ScruffyDuck 0 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 The team appears to have a higher percentage of licensed pilots than the old FSX team including the Creative Director who spent time as a commercial airline pilot. Would you mind asking if he flew his passengers from a third-person perspective? I can ask but I am not sure that I would get an answer Link to post Share on other sites
ShrewsburyFC 215 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Can you ask them to make some more missions, ive done them all, and also ask them to place some more Aerocaches, because ive collected them all except for two, ive got nothing to do now... Sam. Link to post Share on other sites
simmerhead 0 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Can you ask them to make some more missions, ive done them all, and also ask them to place some more Aerocaches, because ive collected them all except for two, ive got nothing to do now... Sam. Well, there's always the "insanely Dedicated Pilot" award to work on while you wait, just 20.000 hrs of flying! Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just a reminder here that the original poster in this thread is a prominent add-on developer who has fogotten things about FS that most of us will never know. If he was at MS and talking to the VPs and the Flight team and comes away thinking that there is a possibility that they will develop a true sim or evolve MSF to be one, I'm quite willing to accept his assesment of that. Like all dedicated simmers, I'm more than ready for a flight simulation package that improves the FSX status quo in several important areas. I truly believe that MS is the outfit most able to do that - not the only one, but the one in the best position to do so. They have the experience, the legacy source code, the people and the deep pockets that the project would require. MSF isn't it, but after reading what Jon reports, maybe that should be MSF isn't it YET. That's not a prediction, just hopeful speculation based on Jon's insight into what's going on at MS with respect to MSF. John Link to post Share on other sites
TedG 0 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I was just being a mildly snarky smart-ass. Blame it on my old age and I meant no offense whatsoever if that was how it was taken. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 None taken by me - I can be as snarky as anyone and I'm a bit on the far side of 30 myself... I have no problem with some good natured MSF-bashing. Frankly, I think they deserve some. However, I do think that what Jon posted at the beginning of the thread shines a new and noteworthy light on the MSF situation from a very credible source who's been inside the MSF lair. I don't want to lose sight of that. John Link to post Share on other sites
ScruffyDuck 0 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Guys I just got back to the UK a few hours ago from Seattle via Atlanta, West Palm Beach, Charlotte and Philadelphia (and flying through the tail of the bad storm and some of the worst turbulence I can recall). This may seem a rather bizarre route (there was a good reason and a bad reason!). So I am not at my best! However I think that the 'wait and see' or 'give it some time' approach is sensible. I am sure that the folks in Redmond have a route map for the future (and no they did not show it to me!). Perhaps it will lead to more of the things that the FS9/FSX community are looking for, perhaps not. Time will tell. Personally Flight is growing on me each time I use it. As a GA pilot who is scared of heavy iron and who has not 'flown a sim' in a number of years I am enjoying it. I do not particularly like the game aspect of things. I do not need awards or points - I have nowhere to hang the coconut bra! - but I think I can ignore the bits that do not appeal to me. I quite like the idea of having a goal in my flying and it will be interesting to see if there are 'missions' that have enough serious content to engage me. Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre 28 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 All well and good, yes this or something else may one day be what FS 11 ought to have been 3 years ago, but like many - I'm well on the wrong side of 30 and beginning to think there'll be nothibg better than FSX - at least in my own sim-flying lifetime . . . Its good if MS is listening but the developers and the suits are different people. the developers are already on record as saying this isn't what they wanted to do - no names, no pack drill. as long as its centred around points, prizes and being made to join Live, and shuts out anything third party though i still think we're p***ing in the wind. . never forget its M$. As i said before - if you think there are fairies at the bottom of the garden . . . I totally agree Mike - it's a business and in business the suits always win - Flight will stand or fall by what the suits want - not what the team want, not what the community want. The suits job is to maximise the profit in as short a period as possible. As I posted elsewhere I really just don't see something which changed tack to move away from simulation towards gaming making an about turn and head back where it started. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim_A 997 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 and flying through the tail of the bad storm and some of the worst turbulence I can recall). I saw the reports of the storms in the paper. At least 30 dead they were saying. Nasty. Link to post Share on other sites
britfrog 180 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 i agree that M.S have changed their angle on things, a couple of years ago every game was aimed at the xbox because the pc was dead (how many times have we heard that?) finally they have seen sense and completely done an about face now they are busy porting all their games over to the p.c. because hello the xbox sales have fallen flat but p.c's are being updated to keep up with the times something you cant do with a pitiful xbox, there is someone at m.s that really needs to get his act together have any of you tried the new windows 8? where are they coming from ? this is going to be as popular as a pork sausage in a synogogue what lame brain would propose dumming down windows to the level of a smartphone? the whole gui is aimed at touch senstive screens and how many have them ? oh about .001% of windows users, i ask you, it must be something in the redmond water, cus they have lost the plot, i wish they would offer me a job, i would soon have things fixed. sorry joe is this too controversial? Link to post Share on other sites
simmerhead 0 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Rest assured, the suits don't always win. In Apple the jeans won, and in Sony and Kodak the suits lost big time. Problem is, if flight sim future isn't with Microsoft, where is it? Who can afford to develop FS11? Link to post Share on other sites
PanzerFodder 0 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Rest assured, the suits don't always win. In Apple the jeans won, and in Sony and Kodak the suits lost big time. Problem is, if flight sim future isn't with Microsoft, where is it? Who can afford to develop FS11? I think that the Future is already here mate , I really don't really see why we need a replacement for FSX just yet? Take a look at what companys like FTX-Orbx and A2A simulations have done with FSX! and as our hardware seems to get faster and more powerfull by the day! what more could we possibly need from a flight sim ATM? . Cheer's...Graham... Link to post Share on other sites
britfrog 180 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 couldnt agree more i am totally happy with fsx modified by ftx, aerosoft, uk2000 and a few others that will do me for a few years, it just reminds me of what some call progress, like the grounding of concord, that was a sad day. some peoples ideas of progress is 3 giant steps backward. Link to post Share on other sites
simmerhead 0 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Well I'm not. Not because it doesn't look good - I've got 200+ gigs of addons, but because I'm tired of tweaking, tired of conflicting addons, tired of problem solving, tired of installing, uninstalling and reinstalling, tired of keeping track of passwords and serials from all the different publishers selling addons, tired of having to use extrenal software to smooth things out, tired of poor gameplay, tired of 2006 technology, tired of waiting for FS11. OK, I'm not that tired, but trying to prove a point... Most people are willing to settle for less realism/quality if a simpler and more accesible alternative exists. 5 minutes flying around in Outerra and FSX looks like it was made 20 years ago... Link to post Share on other sites
Sabre 28 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Well I'm not. Not because it doesn't look good - I've got 200+ gigs of addons, but because I'm tired of tweaking, tired of conflicting addons, tired of problem solving, tired of installing, uninstalling and reinstalling, tired of keeping track of passwords and serials from all the different publishers selling addons, tired of having to use extrenal software to smooth things out, tired of poor gameplay, tired of 2006 technology, tired of waiting for FS11. OK, I'm not that tired, but trying to prove a point... Most people are willing to settle for less realism/quality if a simpler and more accesible alternative exists. 5 minutes flying around in Outerra and FSX looks like it was made 20 years ago... Only time will tell - personally i don't think most simmers are tired of that at all. In fact that's what sets simmers aside from gamers. In my experience simmers will happily go to very extreme lengths to obtain the experience they desire. We're all just speculating any way and as with most things in life it will end up where the consumers want it to end up. If Flight doesn't make Microsoft the money it's supposed to then it'll get dropped like a stone and the current team will end up the same as their predecessors. PS I think you may have taken the "Suits" reference a bit too literally - the money men drive pretty much everything in this modern age. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Quote ...tired of keeping track of passwords and serials from all the different publishers selling addons... Be careful of what you wish for. That's exactly what MS hopes to "fix" and I don't think it's going to be a good thing for flight sim users. The only things that will be published will be what they see fit to publish. Competition breeds innovation and tends to keep prices lower than a single-source market. Every silver lining has a cloud... John Link to post Share on other sites
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