Are you interested in learning to fly better or more correctly under VFR?

[britfrog 180]

If so dont ask me!

No seriously,

Judging from some of the questions/threads  posted from time to time on Mutleys  we are a varied and nefarious bunch who have all come together for our love of flying. Some of us have been pilots , some of us still are, but most I fancy are chasing the dream ,unable for whatever reason, to get their arses in the air and control a real airplane. So our Flight Simulator fulfils many purposes.

However, how many of you actually plan a vfr flight? avoiding controlled airspace , perhaps talking to ATC? flying over ATZ's , under airways, back tracking a VOR , not using autopilot, taking a cross cut from another VOR to ascertain position,  or even harder, homing on an NDB, especially if it is windy. How many of you ever practice a forced landing?

Of course you can always use just the MK1 eyeball and wing it,  but combining it with some instrument flight really makes it interesting and more challenging.

 

Well I am proposing to try to help you understand  what  pilots have done since Wilbur and Pontius were pilots (they started ground school a few weeks before me)   and in doing so make better  pilots out of you, by teaching you some basics and like joining the army, where to get you into shape they do lots of square bashing, with me you will start off flying circuits and bumps. there will be some limitations in these lessons (mostly my shortcomings) but hopefully by doing a few C's and B's  we will sharpen you up enough to undertake a well planned flight from A to B. Do not think for one minute this is going to be a full boring training session, it isn't , I have forgotten far too much ,but it will give you some basics that will give you some idea of what one has to do to fly a real plane and if you follow the same steps it will increase your enjoyment  of flying under vfr in fsx. and help you appreciate a bit more the complexities of flying a real aircraft.

 

If there is sufficient interest from the crew I propose to create a few cross country/ cross the seas, vfr flights which will hopefully be accompanied by a written narrative and a video which will mostly mirror real life flights so that you can reproduce these flights and in doing so heighten your knowledge and ability in flying underVFR.

I am currently proposing to start the ball rolling with a circuit bashing flight based at Popham airfield (which has difficult approaches) using a basic aircraft, where you will be able to recreate the flight using either ftx england and ftx popham or by using generation x region 1 and uk2000 vfr scenery 1 (which contains Popham) . I have always endorsed C+B's  as a great way of getting rid of bad habits which we pick up  just like car drivers do.

Once we are up to speed and can arrive at a given place at a given speed and time The next proposed flight will be a cross country to Seaford VOR and a cross channel flight to a foreign fleshpot where on can get a good meal.

 Other flights envisaged are a flight along the coast In Aussie, and also a flight from Miami to the Bahamas.

However as this all requires quite a bit of organising as you will expect,  we need to know if there will be sufficient interest from the crew to make it worthwhile.

 

 Again depending on the level of interest we may be able to have a flight using multiplayer, or Vatsim and perhaps even negotiate a bulk buy if some scenery that we may all need . Who knows? it is all up to you.

I propose to use a cessna 172 for the first lesson as it doesnt have a wobbly prop or disappearing landing gear , as all this serves to make the circuit much more fraught and complicated but if people prefer I will do it in a 210 or a twin, if you think you can handle the work load.

whatever, let me know if you are interested and we will go from there.

[Andrew Godden 945]

Britfrog,

Sounds like a great idea and you can count me in. I have been organising flying rallies for some years now and have always tried to get the participants focused on flight planning, as the routes I plan are an exercise in navigation using NAVIDS under day and night VFR and IFR conditions and with a bit of dead reckoning thrown in for good measure. Other than the rally side of things, my secondary objective has always been to try and improve participants flight planning and NAVAID navigation skills.

Not having flown on VATSIM, I understand it can be daunting for the uninitiated and inexperienced. I fly MP sessions regularly with a group by having someone host the session using the FSX MP functionality and using Skype for voice comms and social chatter and it works rather well.

Cheers

Andrew

[Mistwalker 3]

I must admit to being a lazy GPSer. I want to learn all the ins and outs of navigation but I hate all that mouse clicking when I'm trying to fly. I've been holding back on doing the serious stuff until I can afford to buy some goodies such as TrackIR and Pro Flight radio panel, etc so that I have 'real' buttons and knobs to press and twiddle rather than all that mouse clicking and view changing hat switching. Having said that, I'll certainly follow your training sessions with interest because that is a far better and enjoyable way of learning than reading manuals.

[allardjd 1,853]

I don't have the FTX scenery but would be interested.

I have a Private Pilot license with limited experience, not current, never instrument rated, but know most of the concepts, understand IFR procedures in general, etc. In FS I use a random time generator for time of day to begin my flights, so get some night work that way, and use RW WX, so take what I get or don't go. I use Radar Contact and file and fly IFR regardless of WX. I normally take the lazy man's way out for approaches, taking vectors instead of flying the full procedure. Planned routes are generally VOR to VOR or taken from RW flight plans where I can find them.

If the lack of FTX scenery isn't a deal breaker, I'd be interested in this to sharpen my planning skills. I understand that European rules and regulations are a bit different from here, so some of that might be an eye opener.

John

[mutley 4,498]

+1 You can count on my support BF, I have been flying untamed for far too long 

[Kevin Firth 114]

Good idea, may I suggest you consider joining up forces at some point with CIX VCR club who do something very similar? They have several flying nights a week and various different flying events so there will surely be other people as well All the CIX flights are on vatsim which may seem challenging but is really not that difficult with helpful understanding controllers..... cheers k

[britfrog 180]

Andrew ,

 thanks for your thoughts i am hoping to start off at a pretty basic level and see what kind of feedback I get as we progress I dont want to teach people stuff they already know but perhaps if i do go back to some elementary stuff those that dont understand it or are too scared to ask may profit . As for Vatsim having been a pilot for a while I just dove in and found that I could have a good time being "controlled" with one exception of an AH who was controlling Bristol who was far more up a certain place where the sun doesnt shine but I just disconnected and flew somwhere else. There is a certain satisfaction using vatsim however having listened to ATC for many years I have to admit more often than not I do my own thing.

 

Mistwalker,

I dont have any of those things you mention, I work with 2 monitors a joystick a headset and a shit load of imagination, funnily enough I rather like clicking the radio frequencies around and as for track IR you can reproduce much the same effect by pushing space and moving your mouse, either way you end up airsick whatever I would welcome you aboard.

 

John,

I learnt to fly near Miami so know the difference in procedures from either side of the pond, the CAA would not recognise my then CPL/IR and would only give me a PP/IMC but that is another story, it is a shame you dont have any UK scenery because flying there with the enormous amount of controlled airspace is a huge challenge, Flying stateside is a lot less regulated , However maybe you will get involved when we fly Miami to the Bahamas?

 

Kevin,

I would like to see how these guys work and instruct , they could probably teach me a thing or two as I am just starting out with this idea, however they are probably quite serious about it, I dont want to scare people off with it being a difficult course, I want to gently increase peoples awareness and knowledge without going the whole chapter and verse bit. I sort of want to give people spacial awareness without the headaches if that makes sense?

 

 

 

 

[Kevin Firth 114]

Different strokes for different folks of course, I've found there's a fairly wide range of knowledge and ability at CIX so no-one should feel overawed by it. They are certified vatsim trainers and I've done my P1 and P2 with them - the training is very good and if nothing else they have a range of documents to assist with learning which explain all the concepts people need in plain language (and free!).

It might be worth pointing people towards angle of attack as well if they want to see some video training. Chris Palmer's Aviator 90 series is a very good and free series of training vids which takes you through most basic flight concepts and manoeuvres. (http://www.flyaoamedia.com/)

Some people may be ready for that quickly, others not, but they are out there ready and waiting!

Cheers k

[needles 1,013]

Hi BF,

What's the catch? How much is this going to set me back?? Are instalments available???

What happens if we pull out after a few days or weeks, is there a get out clause?

 

If you can answer the above, with mutual satisfaction between yourself, me and my lawyer SWMBO, I'm in.

Sounds a great Nigel, excellent idea.

Brian

 

PS. we do live in Scotland, hence the questions

[mutley 4,498]

This will be right up your street Brian, it is another Mutley's Hangar freebie experience.

To answer your second question, we will send Rob and Dai around with their nose flutes, know what I mean? 

[britfrog 180]

Kevin,

I think this is a bit beyond where I want this to go , cix are teaching at a professional level, that is way beyond where I want to go.  I want to show people how to enjoy VFr flight more  by understanding how plane control goes hand in hand with good navigation, Andrews navigation exercises are more the level that I want to clarify, unless the majorty of people want something more complex.

Brian,

I am afraid there is probably no answer I can give that will keep swmbo content, I am offering to impart my knowledge of many years flying to enhance the experience of others that are not as fortunate , who have bought a copy of fsx and managed to fly around and use some navaids  without understanding how you can use them. I am making a clear separtion from IFR flying a tube liner with its computer controlled copilot calling out the checklists.

I am hoping to pass on the art of vfr flying where checklists rarely exist, where navigation by the mk1 eyeball can be enhanced by reference to navigational aids, and how and when to refer to either form of navigation to get from one destination to another. it is not meant to help anyone pass exams but it is aimed at helping people get from an uncertain position to a verified position where the plane is at the correct speed at the correct place ready for what it is next expected to do.

Today as an example I needed to wash the dog so decided to set up a x channel flight from Popham toi Deauville and after departing Popham i engaged the autopilot to handle the climb to altitude and guessed a heading of 150 degrees to take me to Deauville some 20 minutes later I came back to see how the plot was progressing and found that I was in range of DVL and its heading was 154deg my initial guess without a map was purely down to luck but experience reduces luck.

[mutley 4,498]

I can verify the dog washing example, we were chatting by email this afternoon when this was going on, you forgot the hedge trimming Nigel 

 

We are truly fortunate to have Nigel take this on, he has the experience and the tall stories to go with them. I must admit to being more of a cross country bush flyer, flying by the seat of my pants and have become too reliant on GPS. 

 

I hope we can get enough pilots join in, if just for the craic, but even better, to understand more what we are aspiring too in the real world.

 

Cheers,

Joe

[needles 1,013]

This will be right up your street Brian, it is another Mutley's Hangar freebie experience.

To answer your second question, we will send Rob and Dai around with their nose flutes, know what I mean? 

I'll be waiting with ma pipes Joe.

[Kevin Firth 114]

Kevin,

I think this is a bit beyond where I want this to go , cix are teaching at a professional level, that is way beyond where I want to go.  I want to show people how to enjoy VFr flight more  by understanding how plane control goes hand in hand with good navigation, Andrews navigation exercises are more the level that I want to clarify, unless the majorty of people want something more complex.

 

Sorry BF, I did get that from your reply, I think it's a great idea and wasn't trying to suggest everyone should go somewhere like CIX - I just thought some of the simpler documentation and stuff that they have might still prove useful for beginners.  Apols if I didn't make that clear enough, my bad

 

Cheers

k

[britfrog 180]

hey no prob Kevin,

From my point of view the whole essence of flight is accurate speed control, now because of the fsx flight models this can be actually more difficult in fsx than reality, however if we can get people doing correct checks then the speed control and the rest will become second nature.

As far as navigation is concerned we can all RTFM , learn nothing and fall asleep in the middle, If I can make it fun and associate it with a few humerous examples from real life then it should stick.

 

However FSX doesnt include a realistic map of all the controlled airspace in its gps and avoiding that in reality , can be interesting, it is sort of an obstacle course which IFR craft generally do not need to adhere to.

so if anyone knows where i can get online a copy of the south of england half a mill map i would be gratefull.

[Kevin Firth 114]

if anyone knows where i can get online a copy of the south of england half a mill map i would be gratefull.

 

here's a link: http://shop.pilotwarehouse.co.uk/product29130023catno105000023.html

and another: http://shop.memory-map.co.uk/acatalog/CAA_1_500_000_Charts.html

and more: http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/CAA_Aviation_Charts/

k

[Mistwalker 3]

Will you be supplying beer during your flights?

[britfrog 180]

Sorry Kev My mistake i want an online map, i already have my old half mil which i can scan but I would prefer if we could all get access to one online. someone must make one for those that fly with pads.

Joe pointed me at skyvector which isnt bad but it doens show all the roads when you zoom in and the uk half mil has all major roads as well as rivers and railways, and high ground etc no doubt i will have to seek permission to scan and copy my half mil even if it is 12 years old..

 

Mistwalker,

I will see what kind of in flight entertainment I can arrange remember "airplane"

[Kevin Firth 114]

Yep I have memory map which I link up through FSUIPC having created a virtual com port.  The GPSOut function on FSUIPC supplies the memory map GPS in data.  2 of those links I gave are to digital maps which you can download direct to an iPad as well    I haven't come across any plain pdf's of the charts at all though sorry, memory map is the only digital source I can find.

k

[britfrog 180]

Yep I have memory map which I link up through FSUIPC having created a virtual com port.  The GPSOut function on FSUIPC supplies the memory map GPS in data.  2 of those links I gave are to digital maps which you can download direct to an iPad as well     I haven't come across any plain pdf's of the charts at all though sorry, memory map is the only digital source I can find.

k

 

thanks,

about 20 years ago a good friend of mine scanned into his and my laptops at the time an accurately scanned half mil that worked with some software that i have long forgotten but the neat thing was we could hook the laptops up to the gps and fly with a real moving map , years before they became readily available . come to think of it O may still have that prog now! the maps will have changed little since then, the isle of wight hasnt set sail, i will have to go into the depths of the Porter depository.

[kentoot 0]

Hi

 

As a former holder of a UK PPL I like to keep my hand in by drawing up flights on my (now out of date) charts and producing PLOGs, though I must admit to using Plan G for this, rather than the whizz wheel.

 

I did all my UK flying from Hawarden, so I do tend to stick to the NW England and  North Wales area. Even if your whole plan doesn't get off the ground it might be interesting for members to recommend interesting flights in their local areas so we could all see the spectacular bits over all of the UK.

 

Ken

[allardjd 1,853]

I use digitized maps (don't have the one you're talking about, however) and use them in several ways, but prefer not to have the moving map feature ala the GPS, etc.

There's a freeware PDF kneeboard that's good - runs inside FS. It allows me to put all my flight docs together into a pdf and display that. It individually remembers the zoom and orientation of each individual page of the pdf as you page between them. If I do detailed planning, I will have airport diagrams, SID, flight log, enroute charts, STAR, approach plates, maybe even checklists and other AC data all bound together into a pdf using PDF Merge (another freeware gem).

I also sometimes use a stand-alone digital map either on my second monitor or on a laptop/netbook on a small table next to me. Not having the map slaved to FS kind of gives the feel of having a paper map, except you don't have to fold it. You have to keep track of where you are the old fashioned way, but that's half the fun.

There's an article here...

http://forum.mutleyshangar.com/index.php/topic/4995-a-tale-of-three-apps-october-2010/

...that I wrote a few years ago describing all that, including links to the freeware needed.

John

[brett 2,316]

I am always interested in learning more Nigel and thank you for your offer. I have been tested by the likes of MEBAR(navigate around London anyone?my fingers are still numb from that knob turning madness  ) and the GARR series and am familiar with using the NAV gear to a certain extent. One thing I do know is that even if you think you know everything, there is always much more to learn. 

 

I try to fly as correctly as possible during a VFR flight. I tend to create flight plans or in some cases use the direct to feature on the GPS. If I have time for it I will create my own kneeboard(a spiral notepad) and draw the runways for airports and list NDB's, VOR's and ILS info so I do not have to switch to map view during a flight. I must admit that I do not normally concern myself with restricted areas although I do note them on the GPS as I fly to see why they are where they are(usually they look like rich folks housing areas  ) and will sometime fly around the smaller ones near airports. The main reason for this is I like to enjoy the scenery and those darn altitude restrictions get in my way. I do understand the reason for them though. 

 

For fun I will sometimes turn off the GPS and try to do a time and distance flight. They have not always been successful and I have actually panicked at times when the weather has blown me of course because of not adding enough deviation or affected my speed to the point of skewing my speed calculation. A map helps but I have had to fly widening circles to find my target airport or resort to ATC for direction. I know it's only a sim and will still admit to breaking into a sweat when I get temporarily lost and it's getting dark.  I have even practiced diverting to an airport with lights when unable to find the smaller airports I tend to fly too or when a weather front rolls in and my aircraft does not have the proper gear for instrument landing. Using the GPS to find the nearest airport and related info is also a fun task to add some pressure to your flight especially if you promise yourself not to use the pause button. Good times.   

 

Anyway   I look forward to your lessons and promise to fly correctly during them(only  ).   

[allardjd 1,853]

...and draw the runways for airports...

 

 

Ahem - too bad you don't know of a place to get airport diagrams made with FS data...

 

John

[britfrog 180]

Hi Brett,

I am pleased to see how much care you do take , the thing that you are missing is this instrument shown below , no doubt it has a very posh name  but we call it a whirlygig, It was very much necessary to know how to use one, On the backside you calculate your drift by putting in your speed then the wind speed and direction quite simple and quite graphic, on the other side it does everything except make your breakfast, And I am rather ashamed to admit i have towed this thing aroundin my flightbag for 30 years and never used it, in fact I have forgotten how to use more functions than those that I can remember.

 

I remember well at the flying club seeing some friends who would spend an hour drawing on a map their proposed route, , then working out their course after inputting the wind and creating properly a flight plane which they inevitably stuck to rigidly, whilst I who needed to be somewhere would kick the tyres make a quick reference to controlled space local radio frequencies and nav aids get airbourne . For me there was no pleasure in all this planning I wanted to get my arse in the air, and to my destinaion , which I inevitably achieved as time was of the essence. It used to make me giigle sometimes to get back to my field later that day to see the same people poring over a map as if they had not even been flying , and in answer to my question of what they were doing they would indicate that they had come across a problem somewhere and in the tight confines of the cockpit they could lay the map flat all stand around it to find a solution. so returned to the airfield without accomplishing their full flight.

But in all honesty these guys were doing it right per se and I wasnt,

 

However since the introduction of GPS all of this has gone out of the window with gps 's showing all controlled airspace etc there is virtually no need anymore to do it "properly" I wonder if nowadays you still need to answer flight exam questions using a whirlygig,

Maybe someone out there knows the answer?