Comet landing tomorrow!

[brett 2,308]

Dai is right to be sceptical of all these theories, as that's just what they are.

In school they used to teach the Big Bang theory saying there was nothing before the bang.

Yet I always asked, was there no space before the bang? As there had to be space for the explosion to happen and expand.

Never did get a answer.

 

There still working on it but I tend to not believe it myself.

 

[MartinW 0]

Dai is right to be sceptical of all these theories, as that's just what they are.

In school they used to teach the Big Bang theory saying there was nothing before the bang.

Yet I always asked, was there no space before the bang? As there had to be space for the explosion to happen and expand.

Never did get a answer.

 

 Your mistake is that you imagine the expansion of the universe as like an explosion, it's not, not at all. An explosion is an event expanding into an existing realm, the expanding universe isn't like that at all. Imagine it as the inflation of a balloon, everything that exists, expanding, not expanding into anything, just the gaps between everything getting bigger.

 

There is another possibility though. You may wish to research the Casmir effect. According to quantum theory empty space isn't empty at all, it's seething with virtual particles popping in and out of existence before annihilating each other. It maybe that it's from within this realm, that the instability that results in the singularity, and thus our expanding universe occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

 

You may also wish to read about M-Theory. M-Theory postulates a higher dimensional space, replete with bubble universes. Our universe would have been created as a result of two of these bubble universes, or branes, colliding.

 

Sounds like science fiction, but science these days takes the possibility of multiple dimensions very seriously indeed. In fact it's possible that the LHC could find evidence of other dimensions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

Also read about the theory of inflation. Inflation if proven to be correct would also suggest multiple dimensions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)

 

Mark is better read than I am on this though and may be able to add more.

 

[MartinW 0]

I have to say I still consider this to be a frivolous waste of our money

 

as for living in a cave well as a race we are going back to that state in the near future if we are not careful

 

James I also never got an answer about what was before the big bang

 

 

Either absolutely nothing, no space, no time, absolutely nothing at all [something our brains haven't really evolved to comprehend, as we evolved merely to wander around the African savannah] or... higher dimensional space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

M-Theory makes a lot of sense mathematically, in fact string theory and M-Theory are now pretty much melded together.

[MartinW 0]

Latest news re the lander, is that it may not be stable on the surface of the comet. The screws are in place, but the harpoon may have failed. Not a disaster, just means the lander is sliding around a bit in the low gravity.

[ddavid 149]

The Casimir effect is predicated on the absence of any field(s) in the 'vacuum' of inter-stellar space. I doubt that such a vacuum exists, as inter-stellar space is known to conduct electro-magnetic radiation and related phenomena, therefore, associated fields must exist, too.

Multi-verse, or M-verse theory, hypothesises the existence of minima in the vacuum-energy field. Each minimum could support the existence of an individual universe. Some cosmologists are apprehensive about this, as it may deny that the big bang happened.

Vacuum energy is postulated to occur as a result of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Hypothetically, it is this 'energy' that is behind the expansion of the universe, recently detected from analysing the brightness of Type 1a supernovae, and known as Dark Energy.

And, don't forget the search for Dark Matter, introduced to explain the rotational mechanics of non-globular galaxies. Conveniently, Super Symmetry has been put forward as a hypothesis to identify the form (or particle) that Dark Matter might take.

Simples.

Cheers - Dai.

[markhudson6 13]

Martin, I can’t help thinking there is a lot of trolling going on here. 

 

“To refute crap takes an effort an order of magnitude bigger than it takes to produce it”.  

 

Just one question, how do people in this day and age still not understand the definition of a ‘Scientific Theory’.  

 

Kindest Regards,

M.

 

[jaydor 345]

MartinW, don't get me wrong, I have a very strong appetite for the unknown.  I have a true belief that the emptiness we call space is teaming with life that we as yet cannot comprehend.

 

This has been seen with NASA releases of near contact of unknown thingies nearing the space capsules in the manned flight programs. 

 

There are countless secrets of local and deep space that as of yet, have to be discovered by the inhabitants of Earth in the full experience of progress and evolution.

 

It would not be fair for us in our limited time existence lifetime of today to uncover all of the secrets that the universe has to offer now.  We have to leave that to evolve, for the thousands of future generations who will come after us..

 

Maybe in another lifetime we can all enjoy the discoveries that are yet to come.. 

 

All of the things you suggest I read above in a reply, I have done in the past only to find later on in my lifetime travel that they get disproved by a new theory. (It's a never ending story).  Einstein was just on the brink of proclaiming a new theory before his demise

 

into Stella space, which is guessed at as being the conclusion of parallel universes.  Theories are like space ever expanding, what is taught today is not forever, as forever always changes.  Keep your mind open to new learning's, but I am afraid you will never

 

know it all, it's too big..

[ddavid 149]

Here's the latest about Philae:

Shortly after Philae touched town on comet 67P, footage taken by the Rosetta mothership showed a thin layer of green slime slowly creep up over its legs and totally engulf the craft. Scientists are baffled, but believe the slime might be a life form. Dr. Ebert Shawyer, of the ESA, told reporters, “I think it has to be some kind of a mold, the way it crept up the sides of the lander like that.”

Philae was the first terrestrial object to touch down on a comet and contains several scientific experiments which were intended to uncover the secret to the generation of life itself. Shortly before touchdown, several harpoons meant to lock the lander onto the comet failed to deploy. A small rocket designed to push the lander more firmly into the surface also failed to respond. Luckily, the feet of the lander’s legs drilled themselves into the surface, locking it in place, but also possibly unleashing the mysterious goo from the core of the comet, which is now threatening the mission. If the goo remains in place, Philae’s solar panels will likely be inoperable.

Dr. Shawyer said, “This is, of course, a bit disappointing but also an incredible discovery that we can’t yet explain. It may take several more missions before we know what this goo is, or what it’s doing. All we can do now is watch the lander from Rosetta and hope it gives us some better idea of what the goo is.”

I,, too, was surprised by this, but with space, you never know...

Cheers - Dai.

[jaydor 345]

Perhaps it's mouldy mouldy custard and green snot pie all mixed up to make a cold comet cry..

[MartinW 0]

The Casimir effect is predicated on the absence of any field(s) in the 'vacuum' of inter-stellar space. I doubt that such a vacuum exists, as inter-stellar space is known to conduct electro-magnetic radiation and related phenomena, therefore, associated fields must exist, too.

The Casimir effect isn't just predicted, it's been verified in the laboratory.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00542-007-0409-y

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111118133050.htm

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_zeropointenergy01.htm

I mentioned it of course to draw the individuals attention to the concept of zero point energy.

 

Multi-verse, or M-verse theory, hypothesises the existence of minima in the vacuum-energy field. Each minimum could support the existence of an individual universe. Some cosmologists are apprehensive about this, as it may deny that the big bang happened.

 

Interestingly, the "M" in M-Theory doesn't mean multiverse at all, or membrane. It's a standing joke in physics that no one knows what the "M" stands for. Mischievous these physicists.

 

To be honest, I've never come across anything in M-Theory that implies the big bang didn't happen. On the contrary, according to M-Theory there would have been an almost infinite number of universes created in higher dimensional space, courtesy of an almost infinite number of big bangs. I'd be interested in any links you have that would enlighten me on that.

 

Vacuum energy is postulated to occur as a result of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. Hypothetically, it is this 'energy' that is behind the expansion of the universe, recently detected from analysing the brightness of Type 1a supernovae, and known as Dark Energy.

 

 

 

Actually, dark energy has been suggested as a causal factor in regard to the continuing "acceleration" of the universe, not the expansion. The universe isn't just expanding, it's actually accelerating. However, that's not at all certain at this point in time. Cosmological constant, quintessence, moduli... who knows.

 

 

[MartinW 0]

Martin, I can’t help thinking there is a lot of trolling going on here. 

 

“To refute crap takes an effort an order of magnitude bigger than it takes to produce it”.  

 

Just one question, how do people in this day and age still not understand the definition of a ‘Scientific Theory’.  

 

Kindest Regards,

M.

 

 

You know what Mark, that bugs me too. "It's only a theory", they cry. Yes, well try testing the theory of gravity by jumping off your house then.

 

 

Good news re the lander. ESA now say the lander has stabilised. Apparently it could well have bounced hundreds of metres off the surface when it first landed. Anyway, it's now stable and these' a stable radio link. The data is coming in!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30034060

[MartinW 0]

This has been seen with NASA releases of near contact of unknown thingies nearing the space capsules in the manned flight programs.

Yes I've seen the "thingies" you speak of. I'm very sceptical to be honest. An expert from NASA gave a very good explanation, merely ice crystals being blown around by the vehicles thrusters.

However... I do find a small number of UFO incidents to be fascinating, those observed by airline pilots and trained observers.

My favourite comes from the Bolivian air force. Two F16's were on an exercise. Ground radar vectored them to an unknown object. Both F16's picked it up on their radar. The lead F16 obtained visual contact and described it as a black triangle. Shortly after, it's accelerated to 3000 mph and made a sharp 90 degree turn. A turn that should have killed the occupants and wrecked the vehicle. A black project perhaps? Who knows, but I'm not convinced even our most secret aircraft can pull G's like that. But who knows, fun to speculate.

[Christopher Low 63]

Whatever the truth is about the universe, I suspect that "reality" isn't quite as well defined and "solid" as most people would like to think that it is.

[MartinW 0]

Comet latest.

Lander is down on two legs.

Lander hit target site within 100 metres, then bounced as high as a kilometre. Second landing was in alternate landing site.

Lander isn't getting much power as it seems to be in the shade of cliff, so not certain how long battery will last.

Last resort could be to hop the lander to a new site.

If necessary, the lander can power down for months and then power up when required.

Enough data has arrived to revolutionize our understanding of comets though.

[MartinW 0]

40 metres before touchdown.

 

 

[MartinW 0]

Image from surface, showing landing gear, looking directly at cliff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaydor 345]

It's a shame that it landed where the sun cannot reach the solar panels, but at least they are getting info back before it dies..  Well done ESA..

[MartinW 0]

It is getting some sun.

They are considering deploying the drill and giving it a spin to twist the lander toward the sun. Risky, so they won't do this till as much data is in as poss, and battery life is low.

Hope they manage it, the drill was a big deal.

[ddavid 149]

I guess they must have planned for a softer landing - ice and stuff, not rock. Pity, as the sampling results from P67 would have been most interesting.

Now, a well known asteroid has been recently reclassified as 'active', as a visible tail has developed. This opens the door to P67 being reclassified itself, from Oort Cloud comet to active asteroid with eccentric orbit. So, we'll be happy with rocky asteroids with tails, on the one hand, and retain 'dirty snowballs' on the other. Result!

Cheers - Dai.

[MartinW 0]

I guess they must have planned for a softer landing - ice and stuff, not rock. Pity, as the sampling results from P67 would have been most interesting.

According to the twitter feed, beneath the lander is very soft and powdery. All of the devices designed to anchor the lander to the surface failed. So the poor guy is very tentatively in contact with the surface as a result of the low gravity. 100 thousandths weaker than the Earth I believe, the gravitational field.

They are saying that the lander is well on it's way to achieving all of it's hoped for science objectives, despite the rough landing. looks like there will be one more comms pass before the battery dies.

The drill was in action today so some great data should be available with the next comm feed.

ESA are saying that if they get the data down in the next comms pass, they will try to rotate one of the solar panels to face the sunlight.

They may try to bounce the lander out of the hole with the landing gear. Or possibly fire up the landers flywheel to kick it out of the hole. They are considering everything they can think off.

[dodgy-alan 1,587]

Here it is folks, the picture we've all been waiting for, a good close up of the surface detail of a comet!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D :D

 

 

[MartinW 0]

I can see this thread isn't being taken seriously.

[dodgy-alan 1,587]

[Captain Coffee 2,030]

Ah the joys and sorrows of time delay near zero G drone flying. That they hit the target after 10 years of chasing the landing field with frozen hibernating robots is pretty incredible in and of itself.

I was on edge of my seat watching the live feed...and cheering when the back slapping commenced...ironic that at that moment the lander was on it's first 1/2 kilometer high bounce...lol. It's lucky it didn't seriously bang the shit out of the solar panels on the second and third impacts.

This situation almost makes the mission more exciting, if shorter lived perhaps. Seeing how the engineers and scientists pool their ideas to arrive at the best way to optimize the data they recover with the resources they have available, or perhaps hibernate and charge as much as possible till it gets closer/warmer and more interesting to take samples... is going to be cool to witness/read about afterwards.

 

I saw a graphic that broke the costs down to something like less than a theater ticket per EU citizen to pay for this mission...what an amazingly good value!

[markhudson6 13]

Well said Matt. 
 
If I may be so bold....