Light aircraft collision in Warwickshire

[dgor 0]

Details are scarce at the minute but looks like another horrible GA accident in England :shrug_no:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7566628.stm

Dave

[mutley 4,498]

Hi Dave,

The latest update

Five people have been killed when two light aircraft crashed in Warwickshire after colliding mid-air.

West Midlands Ambulance said one aircraft crashed into Brandon Woods in Coventry. The other crashed into a field between Brinklow and the city.

It is understood both planes were making their final approach to the airport when they collided.

The Air Accident Investigation Branch is aware and emergency services are in attendance.

Both making final approach? where was the ATC? I expect there is a whole lot more to this, tragic.

[JPS 0]

I just posted this story over at JF, very sad indeed :sad:

[hurricanemk1c 195]

So sad

I agree with Mut, where was ATC???

Kieran

[allardjd 1,853]

Is Coventry a controlled airport?

 

John

[MartinW 0]

I understand that ATC had given the Cessna 402c clearance to land. Four people on board, on their way back from conducting an aerial survey. Air Ventures I think the company was called.

Five people have been killed in a mid-air collision between two light aircraft in Warwickshire.

One plane came down close to Coombe Abbey, near Brinklow, three miles from Coventry Airport at 1140 BST, West Midlands Ambulance Service said.

The second aircraft crashed in nearby Brandon Woods.

Eyewitness Malcolm Collins told the BBC how "the smaller plane disintegrated immediately, and the right engine of the twin aircraft blew up".

One person in the first plane and four people in the second aircraft - all adults - were confirmed dead at the scene. Their identities have not yet been revealed.

Warwickshire police confirmed a Cessna 402 was one of the planes involved and possibly a micro-light and appealed for any witnesses to the crash to come forward.

The debris from the aircraft "stretches across several miles", a spokesman said.

The twin engined aircraft was on quite a low approach to Coventry, on the normal land path, when a smaller aircraft came from the right and the twin-engined aircraft struck it side on, the smaller plane disintegrated immediately, and the right engine of the twin aircraft blew up," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7566628.stm

[hello_basil 0]

If both were on approach, then perhaps one was on a long approach at, say 8 miles and the other on 4 miles - it is often the case at busy GA airports, perhaps the pilot second in the queue is at fault as he inadvertantly overtook? If he thought that the risk of catching up with the other aircraft existed then why did he not notify the ATC and do an orbit/go around?

Many questions to be answered.

Regards, Theo.

[mutley 4,498]

More from The Times http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel ... 551586.ece

Five people died today when an air services company light aircraft on a routine flight collided with a microlight as it approached to land at Coventry airport.

The accident happened at about 11.30am. Both aircraft came down opposite the luxury Grade I listed Coombe Abbey Hotel, on the outskirts of the city.

The twin-engined Cessna 402 crashed into woods, killing the male pilot and all three passengers

[Martyn 9]

I've heard that both aircraft were in Class G airspace. If thats true it would mean the microlight would have had no obligation to be in contact with any ATC unit and therefore a FIS wouldn't have been in force. So its most likely that the microlight just crossed paths with the Cessna

[hello_basil 0]

But surely, the weather wasn't bad visibility or the crew in the Cessna wouldn't be able to do their job, and doesn't it also state that pilots must maintain a careful all round look out in airspace that does not require ATC contact? :neutral:

Regards, Theo.

[allardjd 1,853]

Don't know how it may differ over there, but here, the responsibility to see-and-avoid is not relieved from the pilot except when in actual IMC. ATC helps if you are flying an instrument flight plan, of course, but there can be other non-ATC controlled AC around. If you're not in the soup, you're supposed to be looking. I think there may also be an exception above the transition altitude (FL180 here) where everyone is under ATC control.

 

Landing approaches are particularly hazardous because, a) you may well be below the height where ATC radar can see conflicting traffic, and :sad: AC are changing height and the 500 ft. vertical separation you normally have between IFR and VFR flights is no longer in play.

 

Micro-light flyers normally don't avail themselves of ATC services, usually staying outside airspace where radio contact is required and that may well have been the case here. It would be interesting to know if he was aware that he was crossing an extended runway centerline/approach course.

 

John

[Martyn 9]

Yes you've hit the nail on the head John

Unfortunately you can maintain the best lookout in the world and still cross paths, it is very difficult to spot other aircraft with all the ground clutter etc. I've only been flying 30 hours and have already had one close call. I was on final and some muppet turned from base onto final about 30m ahead of me and 100ft above...only after a 'polite but firm' broadcast on the frequency did he break off the circuit. You can be the best pilot in the world but accidents happen

[allardjd 1,853]

A micro-light is unlikely to have had a transponder either. That makes it all the harder for ATC to detect him. They may have had a "primary target", but at the height they were probably at, quite possibly they did not.

 

Martyn, you're right. Seeing other aircraft against the groud can be hard. Strobes are a big help - much better than the nav lights or the normal flashing beacons. What's even more difficult is seeing another AC against city lights at night - very, very hard and even once you've spotted one, if you glance away he's gone.

 

John

[Martyn 9]

Interesting post from someone in the know:

This was a tragic accident. The fact that the two crews didn't see eachother is going to be a factor obviously (you generally don't fly into things you have seen and positively identified) but that doesn't mean that anyone is at fault.

I was based at CVT for a while and operating into there during the day could be an absolute nightmare. We had TCAS and two crew with their eyes wired outside the cockpit, but the simple fact is that even with a controller telling you where traffic is, TCAS showing you and with you looking hard, you just don't see it.

We generally operated at night, which cut down the problems of Commercial Vs GA, but if we were late back in the mornings, then descending into CVT at 200+kts could be a scary experience. I pitied the poor controllers who were looking after us, they had us under radar control and were just trying to do their best to thread us through the maze of airspace and aircraft. We'd often stay a bit high and slow down as much as we could and if we could go VFR to help the eyeball count under a RAS we'd do it. Not exactly commercially expedient, but neither is smashing into someone.

As for glider pilots keeping great lookouts, why did I have to file an airprox from within controlled airspace on an IFR plan when we flew straight through a gaggle of thermalling gliders 2000ft up into the London CTA? How we didn't collect any I'll never know, it scared the living the daylights out of me at the time.

RIP chaps.

I have a horrid feeling that this may have been an accident waiting to happen in that area, but I know nothing more than what has been reported on the news. I know there has been a move to increase CVT's airspace, accidents like this if proven to be because mixing IFR and transiting VFR traffic, then there is no option really.

I've had the 'pleasure' of flying around Coventry a couple of times and as this guy explained, its a bit of a nightmare!

[mutley 4,498]

Interesting Martyn, it just goes to show there are so many factors here not least the ability to identify a potential collision.

Cheers

[allardjd 1,853]

It's a gruesome thought, but it's quite possible that the 402 props got the micro-light pilot. The next thirty seconds must have been pretty ugly for everyone concerned.

 

John

[Martyn 9]

Yes its a horrible thought, I can't imagine what the poor families must be going through at the moment. Its an awful way to loose a loved one.

If only we had those big red letters above aircraft in real life, FS style!