UK2000 Scenery publish development roadmap

[mutley 4,497]

From Gary Summons:

 

This is the current order of new airports being developed and some of our previous airports being remade, the list may change in order priority that they are being developed and new airports/remakes will be added over time :

 

• Guernsey
• Belfast City
• Bournemouth
• Belfast Intl Remake
• Bristol Remake
• Southampton
• Inverness
• Isle of Man
• Newquay

 

Visit the forums over at UK2000 for more information/

[Andrew Godden 943]

Are any of them P3DV4 compatible?

[Christopher Low 63]

All of them will be P3D v4 compatible, Andrew.

[Kevin Firth 114]

21 hours ago, Andrew Godden said:

Are any of them P3DV4 compatible?

Compatible, in that they will work. Yet I fear that the workflow Gary follows and the way in which he creates his airports using some bespoke  legacy methods means that performance and features suffer?

[mutley 4,497]

32 minutes ago, Kevin Firth said:

Compatible, in that they will work. Yet I fear that the workflow Gary follows and the way in which he creates his airports using some bespoke  legacy methods means that performance and features suffer?

 

I have to agree, Kevin.

 

I have been trying to review Gatwick V4 in Prepar3d v4 ever since it was released, it is woefully short in v4 features like dynamic lighting and animated AI trains (See Orbx Southampton and Innsbruck to see it working in v4).  Gary has taken to the airwaves to say decent performance can't be achieved in v4 (unless you look at most other developers). The way I see it is UK2000 are still languishing in FS9 and FSX and either unwilling, or unable to deliver optimised products like other developers. Like a member of our crew has publically stated, the v4 train has left the station and UK2000 are still on the platform.

 

I have always been a supporter of UK2000 but they need to raise their game.

[Kevin Firth 114]

18 minutes ago, mutley said:

 

I have to agree, Kevin.

 

I have been trying to review Gatwick V4 in Prepar3d v4 ever since it was released, it is woefully short in v4 features like dynamic lighting and animated AI trains (See Orbx Southampton and Innsbruck to see it working in v4).  Gary has taken to the airwaves to say decent performance  can't be achieved in v4 (unless you look at most other developers). The way I see it is UK2000 are still languishing in FS9 and FSX and either unwilling, or unable to deliver optimised products like other developers. Like a member of our crew has publically stated, the v4 train has left the station and UK2000 are still on the platform.

 

I have always been a supporter of UK2000 but they need to raise their game.

 

To be fair, Gary I think recognises that a good number of his customers still use FS9 and FSX so he develops to some degree to the lowest common denominator.

 

It's also fair to say that since the release of v4, he has developed his approach somewhat, including some dynamic elements, but it's nowhere near bleeding edge anymore.

 

Gary uses his own coded bespoke tools for some development tasks, and these were clearly created to cater for FSX development workflows.  I get the feeling that Gary is reluctant to invest in new bespoke tool creation or more traditional software development tools (which are expensive) which would also of course involve a learning curve for him.  Its more accurate to perhaps say that decent performance can't be achieved in v4 **USING HIS CURRENT DEVELOPMENT TECHNIQUES**

 

Factor in that he's already stated that he's aiming to ease himself out of the airport scenery market anyway, and you end up with a real sense of inertia.  We will continue to get adequate UK2000 offerings I think, but expecting sceneries to the standard of some of todays top developers for P3Dv4 is sadly unrealistic.

 

That said, where there are no other options, the UK2000 airports offer adequate features and performance and are way way way better than default.

 

There is though a gap IMHO in the market for some newer UK talent (Turbulent maybe?) to create a bit of a stir in the UK market, should they choose to do so?   

Edited October 13, 2017 by Kevin Firth

[mutley 4,497]

19 minutes ago, Kevin Firth said:

There is though a gap IMHO in the market for some newer UK talent (Turbulent maybe?) to create a bit of a stir in the UK market, should they choose to do so?   

 

Yup, and Sim720 too.

 

19 minutes ago, Kevin Firth said:

Factor in that he's already stated that he's aiming to ease himself out of the airport scenery market anyway, and you end up with a real sense of inertia.  We will continue to get adequate UK2000 offerings I think, but expecting sceneries to the standard of some of todays top developers for P3Dv4 is sadly unrealistic.

 

OK, that's fair enough but Gary shouldn't try to cruise in the fast lane, leave it to those that can.

 

Cheers 

 

Joe

[Kevin Firth 114]

18 minutes ago, mutley said:

Yup, and Sim720 too.

I don't think Sim720 are in the flightsim market anymore Joe?

Turbulent are the talent and commercial spin off from Sim720 I guess...haven't heard from Barry for ages....

[mutley 4,497]

They're still here I think Kevin, we missed you at the show, were you busy renovating?

[Kevin Firth 114]

I've not heard anything from them for over a year.  They've not worked on any scenery for longer than that I believe.

 

I came round with my daughter Eillithia again, but she was very tired and grumpy.  When we came past you the stand was very busy and you were talking to some people - we did steal a chocolate though

 

Eillithia also had a problem with the mainly older male attendees, as she was unfortunately shoved around and had her view blocked quite a lot.  Not one of the people there showed her any real consideration at all really which made it not fun for either of us.  We went and spent most of our time in the museum where it was less crowded and she could see things without being barged out of the way

[Tim_A 997]

I looked at Innsbruck on Joe's PC at the show, and I was blown away by it in a way that I've never been even by Gary's 'Extreme' airports. Lowest common denominator is not the way to go, IMHO.

 

Speaking of chocolates, I learned today that Quality Street was originally the name of a play by JM Barrie (of Peter Pan fame), a comedy set in Napoleonic times. The chocolates were actually named after it.

[Kevin Firth 114]

3 minutes ago, Tim_A said:

I looked at Innsbruck on Joe's PC at the show, and I was blown away by it in a way that I've never been even by Gary's 'Extreme' airports. Lowest common denominator is not the way to go, IMHO.

 

Speaking of chocolates, I learned today that Quality Street was originally the name of a play by JM Barrie (of Peter Pan fame), a comedy set in Napoleonic times. The chocolates were actually named after it.

In terms of pure quality yes, but reading Gary's forums there's a lot of people there who are happy with what he does and it suits their sim and system.

If his user and customer base isn't collectively demanding more, he can hardly be blamed for giving them what they want

[Christopher Low 63]

I do appreciate where you guys are coming from. As an example, I was astounded by the level of detail (and the performance) of FlyTampa Amsterdam Schiphol in P3D v3. Significantly better framerates than either Aerosoft Heathrow Extended or UK2000 Heathrow Xtreme, and remarkably smooth on my i5 4690k @ 4.3Ghz/16GB DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GeForce GTX770 powered system (with a considerable number of freeware AI planes with detailed textures active). Very impressive.

 

Having said that, Gary has tried to accommodate the FS9 crowd for as long as possible with his products, but I think he has started to realise that the end is in sight for that particular simulator. His next two products (Guernsey Xtreme and Belfast City Xtreme) will include FS9 versions, but he has hinted that all bets are off beyond that.

 

Whilst UK2000 may not be at the forefront of flight simulation technology in 2017, it's safe to say that UK flight simmers would be in no man's land without him. Can you imagine a flightsim world without the UK2000 Xtreme airports and VFR Airfields products? We would have next to nothing without them.

[mutley 4,497]

11 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I do appreciate where you guys are coming from. As an example, I was astounded by the level of detail (and the performance) of FlyTampa Amsterdam Schiphol in P3D v3. Significantly better framerates than either Aerosoft Heathrow Extended or UK2000 Heathrow Xtreme, and remarkably smooth on my i5 4690k @ 4.3Ghz/16GB DDR3-1600 RAM/2GB GeForce GTX770 powered system (with a considerable number of freeware AI planes with detailed textures active). Very impressive.

 

Having said that, Gary has tried to accommodate the FS9 crowd for as long as possible with his products, but I think he has started to realise that the end is in sight for that particular simulator. His next two products (Guernsey Xtreme and Belfast City Xtreme) will include FS9 versions, but he has hinted that all bets are off beyond that.

 

Whilst UK2000 may not be at the forefront of flight simulation technology in 2017, it's safe to say that UK flight simmers would be in no man's land without him. Can you imagine a flightsim world without the UK2000 Xtreme airports and VFR Airfields products? We would have next to nothing without them.

 

I share your sentiments Chris, I have been a loyal customer of Gary's for many years and he was the go to guy for any UK airport. However, we should be encouraging people away from FS2004, but by keep releasing FS2004 airports this  will become a rod for his back. He has left a wonderful legacy for FS2004 and FSX. Time to move on. Excluding FS2004, there are 7 versions created from the ESP core. Some developers have stopped creating products for 32bit sims and their focus is on P3Dv4, FSW and X-Plane.  

[Kevin Firth 114]

31 minutes ago, mutley said:

 

I share your sentiments Chris, I have been a loyal customer of Gary's for many years and he was the go to guy for any UK airport. However, we should be encouraging people away from FS2004, but by keep releasing FS2004 airports this  will become a rod for his back. He has left a wonderful legacy for FS2004 and FSX. Time to move on. Excluding FS2004, there are 7 versions created from the ESP core. Some developers have stopped creating products for 32bit sims and their focus is on P3Dv4, FSW and X-Plane.  

Hear hear, but the point is he's finishing his FSX project of all the UK airports, then moving on, as I understand.  Updating to the latest and greatest isn't his grand plan.

 

53 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

 he has started to realise that the end is in sight for that particular simulator. 

Chris, the end for that sim was 10 years ago mate!

[Christopher Low 63]

Oh, I agree with you, Kevin. Support for FS9 should probably have been dropped a long time ago, but then you have to respect Gary for honouring his commitment to stick with it until he has completed the collection of UK Xtreme airports. Having said that, it looks like he is seriously considering cutting that short. The release of P3D v4 has obviously resulted in a significant amount of upgrade work over and above development of new airports, so stopping support for what is now a "flightsim dinosaur" to give himself a bit of breathing space would seem to be the sensible decision.

 

I agree that Gary probably needs to develop a new, improved system to keep up with some of the other major developers, but I would like him to get Guernsey, Belfast City, Bournemouth, and the Belfast Aldergrove remake onto my hard disk before he takes an extended timeout to develop new software. Purely a selfish viewpoint, you understand

Edited October 14, 2017 by Christopher Low

[Kevin Firth 114]

10 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

before he takes an extended timeout to develop new software

I'd like to see him just use the available tools and development paths that other renowned scenery developers do, but that's probably unrealistic as he'd have to relearn so much about how to do them that way I suspect... maybe not - I don't know?

I think the best we can expect realistically is what we're getting now, if it evolves into something better the beers are on me next year at Cosford.  Here's hoping I get to pay out!

Gary doesn't HAVE to do any sceneries, and like you say, the queue of other developers lining up to do max quality UK airfields is NOT huge.  OrbX were a decent hope but they abandoned the UK project.  I suspect it might have to be to do with so many UK flightsimmers being old and tight with their cash - I can say that I'm from Yorkshire

 

We can say what we like, but ultimately what determines airports getting built is both demand and potential return on investment.  Neither seems to be attractive for the UK I'm afraid.

[Christopher Low 63]

Just a quick update to let you know that Gary has confirmed that Belfast City Xtreme and Guernsey Xtreme will be the last UK2000 products released for FS2004.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Christopher Low