Tim_A 997 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Scratches head..... Well, the numbers for GAAR83 *do* match the ones in the post above, whereas the listing for 'Mr D Williams of UK' don't. Unless Dai has his own entry on the sly (in which case he's beating both of us...) Still, at the end of leg 4 I'm leading Team Mutley by 98.84 to 96.43, so your tyres are safe Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,497 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Well I am still pretty ok with that score, for some reason I still seem to be lagging behind you guys. Tim, you are doing really well with 98.84 keep up the good work :001_th_smiles89: Link to post Share on other sites
Tim_A 997 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Still quite a long way down the leader board though -- there are people getting times consistently within low single digit seconds of their target, and a few exact times there too. I really can't imagine how they manage to do that, given varying wx conditions, circuits etc. Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted February 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Rob - are you still up for Leg 7? Be great if you could. John will be posting his PIREP in the next couple of days - so there's no real rush until the 20th, anyway. Thanks if you will! Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 Quote ...so your tyres are safe No problem - mine has tires. John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I need help with the interpretation of this statement from the GAAR briefing... "The individual Target Time includes a component based on a 12 nm circuit comprising a downwind, crosswind and final approach segments. See also the section on Airport Approaches under the “Visual Flight Rules” link." I've read the referenced rules, but it's not detailed in that respect. I'm not sure what is meant by the "12 NM circuit". Is that a four-sided box 3 NM on a side, centered on the runway or is there some other interpretation? I've scoped out the WX and airport details as well as the rules and I want to establish accurate user waypoints for the pattern entry point, the downwind-base turn and the base-final turn at the required distances. I'm just not sure how to apply the "12 nm circuit" business. I'll be joining a left downwind. I presume I do that at mid-field. Is the remaining half of the downwind 1.5 NM? Is the downwind track offset from the runway 3 NM, or is that 1.5 NM? All this will affect my time if I don't do it the way they assumed, but I can't figure out the details of the expected pattern. A 1.5 mile error from what they assumed in the pattern at 110 knots is going to make almost a minute of difference. I'm probalby over-analyzing this and what happens in the pattern at 110 knots may not have much overall effect on the time for a 220 NM leg, but want to do it as correctly as possible for obvious reasons. Thanks for any help you can provide. John Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 John, the Hints, Tips and FAQs page, here says: Question 11. How is my target time calculated?Answer 11. The 'Target Time is based on the 'Test Flight Time'. It is applied to the distance for each respective Flight Leg with elements factored in for the various stages of flight, Climb, Cruise, Descent and Circuit. The Climb component factors in a reduced speed and distance covered, as does the Circuit component, which is based on a combined Downwind, Base and Final Leg of approximately 12 nm. Does this help? Actually, I approached each airfield, worked out what would probably be the 'active', joined the circuit at the appropriate point - from my point of view - and landed. My traffic is non-existant and I don't bother with M.S. ATC either. And, as you said, with a Leg length of 220 nm, the odd 30 seconds ain't going to matter much! Look forward to the PIREP... Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Quote Does this help? No, it doesn't. That's what I was looking at originally. That business of a "12 nm circuit" doesn't make any sense to me. I've already worked out the WX and the runway and it will be a near-side approach, joining the downwind at mid-field. That's the best I can do with the sketchy information. John Link to post Share on other sites
rob16584 42 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I can do leg 7 if needed, but it will be Friday before I have any time to do it. If anyone else can do it before then please speak up Link to post Share on other sites
Tim_A 997 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I need help with the interpretation of this statement from the GAAR briefing... "The individual Target Time includes a component based on a 12 nm circuit comprising a downwind, crosswind and final approach segments. See also the section on Airport Approaches under the “Visual Flight Rules” link." I think 12nm is a little generous (at least for a light GA. heavier aircraft of course will fly wider circuits). Working backwards, a 3 mile final + a 3 mile base (quite a wide circuit...) leaves a 6 mile downwind, which would place you at about the point of the turn from crosswind for a typical 1 mile runway. Not unreasonable though. Many places outside the U.S. a "downwind join" is flown from the beginning of the downwind leg, not from midfield, and typically you'd fly 'straight in' to that. If you're joining the circuit from the side, you'd typically make that a base leg join (or crosswind, from the other direction). Australia does actually allow a 45-degree midfield join (it's called a "midfield" or "45°" join), but Europe doesn't. In practical terms, knowing your target time will greatly affect how you fly, particulatly as you approach, knowing how much time you have "in hand" can influence whether you fly a tight circuit or a lazy one, or whether you grit your teeth and fly straight in to a downwind landing. It's worth scoping out the airfield first too, since if it has a crosswind runway that's within limits, that can work in your favour. Joining downwind will add around 5 minutes to your time, over a straight in approach. That's offset by the fact that you will probably have had a tailwind for the cruise (the converse is also true: if the wind favours straight in, you've probably had headwinds for most of the flight). This is also where flying the whole rally has its benefits, since you can refine your flying on successive legs and hopefully improve. I've discovered that cruise altitude has a bigger influence over the final time (at least for my aircraft): Higher is slower. I know that if I spend any length of time above 4500, I'm definitely losing time. However, just as in motor racing, where the race can be won or lost in the pits, in GAAR, a good time can be made or lost in the circuit. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Detailed planning complete - flying Tuesday. John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Leg 6 complete. Ugly WX all the way. Time was 90.88 minutes. Do you post at GAAR or do I need to? Getting close to the deadline. John Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thanks, John - that's fine. I'll email the Leg Time into Andrew. Rob is doing Leg 7, then, it's just young Kieran to finish things off - excellent! Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Here's the latest Team Mutley Roster: GAAR Leg List, Pilots and PIREP's 1. Gold Coast YBCG to Chinchilla YCCA..........176 nm RWY 14/32 1073m x 18m asphalt......Dai.........Completed.....75.79 min 2. Chinchilla YCCA to Bundaberg YBUD...........234 nm RWY 14/32 1633 x 30m asphalt........Joe.........Completed.....97.33 min 3. Bundaberg YBUD to Lady Elliot Island LYT....187 nm RWY 09/27 575m x 12m coral...........Dai........Completed.....78.23 min 4. Lady Elliot I LYT to Hamilton Island YBHM....316 nm RWY 14/32 1767m x 90m asphalt......Joe........Completed....127.63 min 5. Hamilton I YBHM to Alpha YAPH.................237 nm RWY 18/36 1463m x 30m asphalt.......Rob.......Completed.....98.00 min 6. Alpha YAPH to Winton YWTN.....................220 nm RWY 14/32 1405m x 30m asphalt.......John......Completed.....92.30 min 7. Winton TWTN to Lavarack YLVK................. 334 nm RWY 09/27 579m x 18m grass...........Rob 8. Lavarack YLVK to Chillagoe YCGO..............236 nm RWY 17/35 981m x 18m asphalt.........E.J.......Completed.....83.29 min 9. Chillagoe YCGO to Lizard I. YLZI..................313 nm RWY 11/29 926m x 15m asphalt........Kieran...Completed...135.44 min 10 Lizard I YLZI to Cairns Intl YBCS.................134 nm RWY 12/30 927m x 18m asphalt........Kieran Currently, the scores for our 3 participants are: 1. Tim..................99.00 2. Dai..................98.74 3. Team Mutley....96.53 Well done, Tim - great flying, mate! (Well, your tyres/tires are safe - for the present, at least! - Ed) Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Dai, Where does the 92.30 come from? My time was 90.88. Is that my time corrected against the GAAR 94.20 benchmark? John Link to post Share on other sites
rob16584 42 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Leg 7 done. Time on the clock of 147.36 mins, which is 147mins 21sec I think Over to you Kieran Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Thanks Rob. Here's the latest Team Mutley Roster: GAAR Leg List, Pilots and PIREP's 1. Gold Coast YBCG to Chinchilla YCCA..........176 nm RWY 14/32 1073m x 18m asphalt......Dai.........Completed.....75.79 min 2. Chinchilla YCCA to Bundaberg YBUD...........234 nm RWY 14/32 1633 x 30m asphalt........Joe.........Completed.....97.33 min 3. Bundaberg YBUD to Lady Elliot Island LYT....187 nm RWY 09/27 575m x 12m coral...........Dai........Completed.....78.23 min 4. Lady Elliot I LYT to Hamilton Island YBHM....316 nm RWY 14/32 1767m x 90m asphalt......Joe........Completed....127.63 min 5. Hamilton I YBHM to Alpha YAPH.................237 nm RWY 18/36 1463m x 30m asphalt.......Rob.......Completed.....98.00 min 6. Alpha YAPH to Winton YWTN.....................220 nm RWY 14/32 1405m x 30m asphalt.......John......Completed.....92.30 min 7. Winton TWTN to Lavarack YLVK................. 334 nm RWY 09/27 579m x 18m grass...........Rob.......Completes....147.36 min 8. Lavarack YLVK to Chillagoe YCGO..............236 nm RWY 17/35 981m x 18m asphalt.........E.J........Completed.....83.29 min 9. Chillagoe YCGO to Lizard I. YLZI..................313 nm RWY 11/29 926m x 15m asphalt........Kieran....Completed...135.44 min 10 Lizard I YLZI to Cairns Intl YBCS.................134 nm RWY 12/30 927m x 18m asphalt........Kieran Just Kieran to go - Well Done Lads! Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'll fly it tomorrow Dai - and post Leg 9 shot's tomorrow as well Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,497 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'll fly it tomorrow Dai - and post Leg 9 shot's tomorrow as well My hero! well done for tying up Kieran Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 What are you trying to say Joe! :icon_thumbup: Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 OK - flight time for GAAR010, which landed in the dark after a Virgin Blue 737-800 took-off, was 58.50 minutes - 58 and a half mins. 0.54mins faster than scheduled (according to the GAAR website, the target time is 59.04) Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hey, Kieran - I'm sorry, I missed this post - apologies, mate! Good time, too - well done. :cheering: The GAAR Results page has been updated for Leg 8 (see here) and the current standings are: Tim - 98.98 points, Dai - 98.57 points and Team Mutley - 95.06 points. Our Team is the highest placed team!! Excellent!! :icon_thumbup: And, of course, we're the only team to have the guts to enter - Go Team Mutley... So, well done, Tim - so far, that is, until we get to the end... Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think that's a pretty credible showing. In a precision flying event, there's an obvious disadvantage for a team as it introduces another source of variability. In an individual entry, he's going to be flying the same AC on the same PC using the same controls hardware and, most importantly, with the same brain behind the yoke doing the flying according to his habits and preferences. Teams don't enjoy that advantage. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty well satisfied with our results so far. John Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 No need to apoligse Dai! Link to post Share on other sites
rob16584 42 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I missed this post being updated too, oops. Well done Keiran, that's a good time. I agree with John we've done really well to get such a respectable score when you consider all the variables involved. Link to post Share on other sites
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