allardjd 1,853 Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 No, that's not it either, Alan. John Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Not an Alon (at least none that I'm able to find) either. There were quite a few manufacturers who had their hands on the type certificate for this little rascal (the Ercoupe) and I'm betting John has found some oddball prototype somewhere that started life as an Ercoupe. What about the one that was used for JATO tests? Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 OK, this has not exactly been fair. I've been kind of playing with you guys here. It's not exactly a red herring but it's obscure enough that I don't think anyone was going to find it. I'll spill the beans at this point... It is in fact an Ercoupe, which is pretty obvious, and is by Erco, the original builder, long before Alon and others got a piece of the action. A family member has accidently stumbled on the story of this aircraft and some information about the people who currently own it. The current owners and the existence of this particular aircraft are well known in the Ercoupe community but not much outside of it. The aircraft is a factory prototype from around 1947, a one of a kind that was only about 90% completed. It never flew, of course. It was intended to be a four-seater. It is being restored and is within weeks of making its first flight ever. The owner is one Marvin Dunlap of Hamburg, Michigan, somewhere north of Ann Arbor, so I'm told. The lady in the photo is the daughter of one Elmer Hall, the man who originally found the remains of the prototype somewhere, years ago. He worked on it some but passed away before making a lot of progress. Some time later Mr. Dunlap learned of it and bought the AC from Elmer Hall's heirs. Dunlap is deeply involved with the Ercoupe owners group and owns another one as well. There's a good write-up of the history of the Ercoupe in the link below. The reference to this AC is in the last two paragraphs, copied in below the link. The FAA registration number, which I blurred out is N4XF. It is in the on-line FAA registry database and is simply listed as a "Coupe". http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Body_by_Erco.html?c=y&page=1 "Erco produced almost 5,100 Ercoupes, and companies such as Forney, Alon, and Mooney later built 500 of their own versions. At the fly-in, a “Coupe Showcase” displayed examples of all but one of the models. Weick and his team had been working on the prototype of a four-seat Ercoupe, but the project was cancelled when the market for private aircraft plummeted in the late 1940s. Ercoupe club members Marvin and Ruth Dunlap learned the whereabouts of the unfinished airframe and bought it in 1990. They’ve been working on it ever since at their home in Michigan. Starting with just a fuselage section, they’ve had to add wings, a tail, an engine, and much more. They aim to fly their one-of-a-kind Ercoupe to this year’s fly-in in Terrell, Texas. Says Ruth Dunlap: “It’s going to be a new, old, 1947 four-place Ercoupe.” The only other photo I have is here. It doesn't show much but does suggest that the front half of the AC is pretty much standard Ercoupe-ish, but with a larger engine. I believe the photo on the cowling is of the deceased Elmer Hall. I also found a reference that suggested the standard Ercoupe wings were increase by the use of a special wing box center section that was longer span-wise than the standard one. There is perhaps a hint of that in the original photo, where I can see the aft few inches of a chord-wise joint quite a ways out from the fuselage, at the inboard end of the off-color control surface. Sorry to be so underhanded, but this story and photo fell into my hands quite by accident about the time I got my PhotoBucket account problems straightened out and it seemed like a sign from Heaven that I should use it to confound you all. I'm very disappointed that Andrew Godden hasn't taken the bait yet. Stumping him and Alan at the same time, however unfairly, would have been something to relish. I'm going to declare Quickmarch the winner, since he was first in with Ercoupe and his last remark, "...and I'm betting John has found some oddball prototype somewhere that started life as an Ercoupe.", is pretty much on the mark. John Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Great find John, I've been trawling the Ercoupe files but could find no reference to it anywhere. Great little aircraft and will be nice to see this bird fly. Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Thank you, John, The second picture shows another major departure from Ercoupe standards. With the bigger engine also came a three blade prop by the looks of things. I hope you guys can wait a day or so for a reply. I'm up to my wing roots in workmen as they attempt to make repairs to the damage done to "Passages" during the long trip home. I'll try to do some arcane research tonight and get a wizzer posted. Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Godden 943 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 John, Like March, I had picked it for the Ercoupe but couldn't place the cockpit window arrangement. My hat off to you, and I didn't think their was anything underhanded at all about it. Cheers Andrew Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 It's a measure of how good you guys are that we have to get down to one-of-a-kind, never-flown, un-finished factory prototypes from sixty years ago in order to provide much of a challenge. John Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 We were all on the right track but none of us could have got that one, great challenge. Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Godden 943 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 It's a measure of how good you guys are that we have to get down to one-of-a-kind, never-flown, un-finished factory prototypes from sixty years ago in order to provide much of a challenge. John, Some would call that sad. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 What do they know? They probably still think a stall means the engine quit. John Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Stall this! Sorry about the miniscule size - going to have to do. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Scaled Composites Proteus Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nuts! That lasted 17 minutes - gotta be some sort of record. It was better when I was half a world (and a whole day) away. Scaled Composites "Proteus" it is. Strange name - see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus I'm not sure how it meets the criteria (ie: shape-shifter) Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I'm not sure how it meets the criteria (ie: shape-shifter) That's easy - it started out as a Long-EZ. John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 That one was easy, March. Anything that looks remotely like that just has to have been made by Rutan. I just searched on "Scaled Composites" and looked at the images. The third one was it. Looking for something to post next. John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 This should not be too terribly difficult... John Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I know it, but since I'm away, I'll refrain from answering Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nakajima KI-44 Shoki. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 No, that's not the one, though they do look similar. John Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Well it's not a KI-84 Hayate as they all had 4 bladed props, could be a KI-43 but the u/c doesnt look right, niether does the canopy. hmmmmm. Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 Kawasaki KI-100-1b. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 That's the one. The photo is from the RAF Museum in Hendon. Your ball, Alan. John Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 That must be a new arrival, It wasn't there 16 years ago when I was last there. I can see a trip to London coming on. When I lived up there I was never out of that place, I could get bus from Heathrow (I lived on the edge of the airport)right up to Burnt Oak and then jump on the tube down to Colindale. The RAF Museum was a short walk from the station. I loved going there and learned a heck of a lot about aircraft by doing so! I'll find something suitable........ Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 OK guys, try this one, I want the EXACT model designation please. It souldn't be too hard. Link to post Share on other sites
dodgy-alan 1,587 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Another clue, the real one never actually went into production as it's intended customer said it had no need of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now