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Licencing costs

UKJim

By UKJim,
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UKJim

UKJim 502

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Hi,

 

So I am looking more and more into P3D and with V2 being released soon it has made me look harder :) So basic question really...

 

I see the licencing on the site and the developer licence is a monthly licence but the other licences are they also monthly or yearly or one off fee?

 

If I got the Academic licence would i still be able to modify aircraft configs etc - I do not need to modify any game files apart from FSX configs and scenery files; is this also possible?

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

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ddavid

ddavid 149

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I'm not an expert, Jim, but Lockheed specifically states that 'academic' excludes 'recreational'. I'm not sure if Joe has approached Lockheed to ask about an umbrella licence, for Hangar members, but right now, P3D is aimed at the commercial sector only.

Cheers - Dai. :cool:

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britfrog

britfrog 180

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I think a certain amount of wink, wink nudge nudge, needs to be undertaken here .

P3D is for pro's and students only, that is indisputeable

However if you are learning to fly, you can use it as  an aid, therefore the academic licence is perfect, the fact that you have not actually booked your first flight or booked a school  is irrelevant, you are hoping to get your licence and are using P3D to see if you will like it, or you are using it to see if you have the aptitude, spatial awareness. If you are a student of life as I see it, thats ok , if you are a student of any kind

whatever, then you can use P3D in accordance with their eula.

Tell them that you are an enthusiast , hobbyist, with no intention of flying or using P3D as a study aid then you will be in contravention of their eula.

 

Either way I am sure LM have no intention of sending the heavy mob over from the good old US of A  just because some retired crony in the wilds of some God forsaken land is using their product in contravention of their eula unless of course you are a multibillionaire worth sueing.

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Kevin Firth

Kevin Firth 114

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I'm not an expert, Jim, but Lockheed specifically states that 'academic' excludes 'recreational'. I'm not sure if Joe has approached Lockheed to ask about an umbrella licence, for Hangar members, but right now, P3D is aimed at the commercial sector only.

Cheers - Dai. :cool:

If I may beg to humbly differ... :P

3pd are very clearly on board and promoting the reality of the situation, which is home simulation users are welcomed!

LM fudged their legal restrictions with M$ brilliantly in the creation of their academic licensing, which through nothing other than the invention of language envelops us into the welcoming and fully legal embrace of P3D

The only thing that is stopping anyone taking full advantage of that glorious fudge is the erroneous and limiting belief that they are not learning when using P3D, whenever, wherever and howsoever that may be.

K

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allardjd

allardjd 1,853

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Speculation about what's in the licensing agreement between MS and L-M is just that - speculation.  As far as I know the terms of that agreement have never been released publicly and probably never will be.  Everyone seems to think that L-M is legally constrained from this and that but I don't think anyone outside those two companies really knows.  The academic license seems a pretty transparent way to make the thing available to the masses at a competitive price.  It must be legal under the licensing agreement.  I'd be very surprised if Lockheed-Martin's lawyers are any less competent than Microsoft's.

 

One way this may play out is that, after a period of time, if L-M sees some significant interest from the flight sim community, they may choose to re-negotiate the the licensing agreement with Microsoft to give them more leeway to advertise and sell into that market.  Remember that at the time the original agreement was drafted and signed, MS Flight was under development and Microsoft was probably very protective of that, not wishing allow P3D to become a competitor to MSF.  We all know how that ended up and it's now likely that MS might be much more agreeable to P3D being marketed to the flight sim community.

 

As I understand it the Academic version is the complete and full product, unconstrained in any way except to have a small text banner in the top-right corner of the display. 

 

John

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allardjd

allardjd 1,853

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if what you maintain is correct why wont PMDG allow its products to be used in P3D?

 

 

This is more speculation - just my opinion. 

 

I believe PMDG's attorneys looked hard at L-M's intended use for P3D as a multi-purpose, open-ended simulation engine for simulating real world situations and saw a liability risk for their client.  L-M/P3D is portrayed by its publishers to be an open-ended, easily configurable simulation platform for design support, testing and training on all sorts of things, probably limited only by the ingenuity of the end users.  PMDG's products happen to be sufficiently accurate and realistic models of some real-world aviation hardware and software that it's plausible that PMDG products might be used by some P3D users as a training aid for real-world operators of that equipment.  PMDG, or more accurately their legal eagles, see in that some significant risk of lawsuits in the future.

 

The difference between P3D and FSX in the eyes of P3D's attorneys is that the publisher of P3D specifically and openly intends it to be useful for training on real world situations while FSX is clearly characterized by its publisher as a "Game".  

 

John

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brett

brett 2,315

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I think the fact that Boeing was involved with PMDG, in their getting the aircraft so exacting, has a lot more to do with it. Sue PMDG in the situation described by John and the lawsuit would go right up the line to Boeing.  

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britfrog

britfrog 180

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if what you maintain is correct why wont PMDG allow its products to be used in P3D?

 

 

This is more speculation - just my opinion. 

 

I believe PMDG's attorneys looked hard at L-M's intended use for P3D as a multi-purpose, open-ended simulation engine for simulating real world situations and saw a liability risk for their client.  L-M/P3D is portrayed by its publishers to be an open-ended, easily configurable simulation platform for design support, testing and training on all sorts of things, probably limited only by the ingenuity of the end users.  PMDG's products happen to be sufficiently accurate and realistic models of some real-world aviation hardware and software that it's plausible that PMDG products might be used by some P3D users as a training aid for real-world operators of that equipment.  PMDG, or more accurately their legal eagles, see in that some significant risk of lawsuits in the future.

 

The difference between P3D and FSX in the eyes of P3D's attorneys is that the publisher of P3D specifically and openly intends it to be useful for training on real world situations while FSX is clearly characterized by its publisher as a "Game".  

 

John

 

 

I have to admit I harbour the same idea , I thought I would play devils advocate to see if others felt the same way

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allardjd

allardjd 1,853

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@ Brett -> Not sure why Boeing would care if someone used P3D and a PMDG product together.  If there's a RW accident in a Boeing AC, Boeing is going to be the first one sued anyway regardless of whether P3D and/or PMDG is involved or not.  The vultures lawyers always go for the targets with the deepest pockets first.  It may well be that L-M might also be targeted if P3D is implicated in the event but Boeing will be on the list of those being sued by definition anyway.  I can't imagine that being a big driver for PMDG and I can't imagine anyone at Boeing being so naive as to think they can avoid a lawsuit in an accident involving a Boeing AC as long as PMDG didn't permit it to be used in P3D.  If it crashes and was built by Boeing, they ARE going to be named in a lawsuit, at least until the dust settles and everyone sees where the poo really got splashed.

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brett

brett 2,315

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I agree with what you said above but added that PMDG lawyers might have heard from Boeings lawyers before agreeing to help the company with creating such a complicated aircraft, when it came to allowing it's use in LM's P3D. If Boeing was not involved, in any way, in helping PMDG create their aircraft, I was thinking things might have been different.

 

If an passenger aircraft crashes, do people go as far as suing the training centers that trained the pilots, I don't know. 

 

 

 

     

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UKJim

UKJim 502

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When I posted this I knew I would get some crazy responses - every post regarding P3D on the web seems to talk about this issue. 

 

So I will make it simple for you guys...

 

Who here has P3D and what licence did you buy? Did you have to jump through any political hoops to get your licence too? 

 

Thanks,

Jim

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dogtrack

dogtrack 346

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Had the Dev Lic from v1. No hoops and no queries. Cancelled at v1.2 as it didn't do it for me. Will reactivate my Lic after v2 has been distributed somewhat and feedback is noted. Use the short term 1 month non recurring option. If all is good then I shall buy the Academic version. Certainly interested to see how it has evolved. A month will be enough to assess its worth to me....can always wait a couple of years for v3 if needs be.

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UKJim

UKJim 502

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Hi Jim,

I have the academic licence and no, I didn't have any hoops to jump through.

You pick which licence you want, you pay your money, job done.

Cheers

 

Is the academic licence a one off payment? is it an annual subscription style payment? So people wiv dev licences and paying $10 per month are wasting their money if they are renewing every month?

 

Cheers,

Jim

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brett

brett 2,315

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I am really surprised that they are not giving a discounted upgrade for previous users of the first version since they are not continuing work on it.(except as mentioned on the site) If you purchased v.1-4 three months ago your out of luck, what a rip. :( Greed has no limits.

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