donnybalonny 46 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 http://www.carenado.com/CarSite/Portal/index.php?accion=product&correl=147 We´ve all seen it comming because all the Carabeo products have been steadily going up in price for each release. For 50,-$ I expect (besides good looks) a deep simulation, few bugs, serious ducumentation, manual and tutorial. I dont know if Carenado has changed that because lately, documentation has been very poor from their side. The quality of their addons can be and is being discussed constantly and they have their followers which is why I think they can ask for this price. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Maybe this one has had more development costs? It wouldn't make sense to artificially bloat the price. The features look quite impressive. At the end of the day, we can vote with our wallets Link to post Share on other sites
donnybalonny 46 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I dont think a thing like "artificially bloating price" exists. You try to get as much as possible or what you may think is fair. I make a living making and selling things and pricing is a jungle. Sometimes if you put your price to low, you dont sell because people think that what you´re selling is not good enough for a better price etc. Carenado and Alabeo has pushed up their prices continuosly the last year or so. If they are worth it, I´m not the one to judge. I know what I think about them. They sure are pretty and thats it. This one has (or should have) so many systems incl. that their standard procedure with shipping with a few pages with checklists and nothing else would be very critical IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 @db - Have you made these comments to them? John Link to post Share on other sites
donnybalonny 46 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 No, and why should I? Its been talked about a million times on different forums (price vs quality and documentation) besides they are in their good rights to do what ever they do. Our world is like that. I just had a short peek on the unofficial Carenado forum at Avsim and it doesnt look to good. Lots of problems with FMC and autopilot and there´s already a service pack out a few days after release and according to the users there it still doesnt work well. And on that forum there are many pro carenado folks. Well, I stay away. I will patiently wait for Aerosofts CRJ700/900 I have a lot better experiences with these guys. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Thanks for your feedback Anders, not every release works for every simmer and everyone's comments all help us in our research to choose the correct product for ourselves Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I tend to compare prices for other like products available. Does this product live up to the like priced Majestic Q400 would be my question? Link to post Share on other sites
donnybalonny 46 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It cant be compared. Its all about likings or what is called "flying style" or "sim-style" I dont have the Majestic Dash, but I know what it is and I´m pretty sure this Carenado Jet is targetted for another flying or sim style. If not, Carenado would have completely changed their business policy without saying so. And why should they do so? How long time does it take to master the Maj. Dash. You can master 25 Carenado planes in the same amount of time and be 25 times poorer. ¿what is best or worse? Some love flying or testing all available AC while others prefer using half a year or more on just 1 AC. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It cant be compared. Its all about likings or what is called "flying style" or "sim-style" I dont have the Majestic Dash, but I know what it is and I´m pretty sure this Carenado Jet is targetted for another flying or sim style. If not, Carenado would have completely changed their business policy without saying so. And why should they do so? How long time does it take to master the Maj. Dash. You can master 25 Carenado planes in the same amount of time and be 25 times poorer. ¿what is best or worse? Some love flying or testing all available AC while others prefer using half a year or more on just 1 AC. You have made my point for me, I can't see paying top dollar for eye candy. I'll wait a few years for a 50% off sale. Besides, every Carenado aircraft I have purchased needed fixing by helpful simmers because their company has a make it and forget it policy. This is just my opinion and not those of Mutley's Hangar. I have so many aircraft at this point that are fly on rails with no soul that I want more from them, especially at the 50 dollar mark. Last time I paid that much money was for the A2A Cessna C182, it not only looks great but has everything modeled, the electric system, hydraulic, oil, sparkplug fouling, the oil actually gets darker as you build up flying hours, the list goes on. So why pay as much for an aircraft that doesn't model as much. It doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, that's just me and the same goes for scenery. Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I just had a short peek on the unofficial Carenado forum at Avsim and it doesnt look to good. Lots of problems with FMC and autopilot and there´s already a service pack out a few days after release and according to the users there it still doesnt work well. And on that forum there are many pro carenado folks. Yep, this one seems pretty much par for the course. What we have come to expect from Carenado. They do like to shove them out of the door quick, with obvious bugs still present, and then wonderful people like Bert Pieke on Avsim have to spend hours fixing the bugs and releasing their work to the community. It's what I've come to expect, when you buy it you become an unofficial beta tester. PC-12 was a fine example. Lots of bugs, many of them obvious, but a great add-on after installing Bert's fixes. In regard to the PC-12, there was talk of Carenado supplying Bert's fixes in an official service pack... don't think it happened though. Instead we have to mess about with files till it becomes the aircraft it should have been all along! I have to be honest though, even at $50, £33, it's damn cheap. And you do get what you pay for. Link to post Share on other sites
donnybalonny 46 Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I have to be honest though, even at $50, £33, it's damn cheap. And you do get what you pay for. Please no.... 50,-$ is NOT damn cheap if its full of bugs and the service packs dont work. When you say like that you let devellopers get away with whatever and thats exactly what is happening. For 50$ you can get high quality addons which has cost a lot more time to devellop, with lots of documentation etc. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 @ db - I once had a boss who counseled us to "...learn to complain without suffering...". You appear to be suffering over this. If you don't like it don't buy it. Letting others know is fine but at some point it begins to sound like a crusade or a vendetta. John Link to post Share on other sites
MyPC8MyBrain 273 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I can share some points from my prospective as a developer Several things have changed in the past year, the rate conversion has dramatically changed For developers like myself (I get paid in EUR then convert to Dollars); I lost 30% since the beginning of this year just there! Next are added costs for managing increasing piracy; which to be honest with you guys; is simply killing everything! I don’t know when these trends will slow down or change if ever; protecting our inelegance property is very expensive on top of development costs; It requires new developments and developers to build protection layer, it requires a dedicated servers sometimes combined with bandwidth costs, The more people come up with ways to steal our work; instead of coming up with ways to earn more money; it requires more expensive specialty services to recover our losses Here's a live example of two torrent exploiting my work at the current moment, These statistics are from today as you can see from the log date and timestamp; I am doing the monitoring here; it's not a third party! Two torrents from two different sources distributing 8 regions of my work in a single pack, right now over 400 logged people are looking to download NE! how many copies did we sale this weekend anyone wants to take a wild guess? (dont bother its 4!) this is one of the reasons prices are going up and not down! In The red circle are people currently downloading the files (swarm), In The orange circle are seeds; which are people who are giving it away at the current moment (some of the information was deliberately obscured to protect our efforts; mind you it only takes few hours to download this) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I have to be honest though, even at $50, £33, it's damn cheap. And you do get what you pay for. Please no.... 50,-$ is NOT damn cheap if its full of bugs and the service packs dont work. When you say like that you let devellopers get away with whatever and thats exactly what is happening. For 50$ you can get high quality addons which has cost a lot more time to devellop, with lots of documentation etc. Well I guess it's relative. To me 33 quid is very cheap. If it's not for you, I understand. You are preaching to the converted, so no need to attack someone on your side. The superb RealAir Duke for example is pretty much bug free, it was from release. The Majestic Dash is about the same price now, on offer at Just Flight, but was more expensive when first released. The point is that anyone who's spent some time on Avsim's unofficial Carenado forum, and anyone who's spent time messing about with files to correct the deficiencies, is fully aware of what's involved when we purchase Carenado add-on's. Many have complained, quite vociferously, but the situation remains. So no, myself being of the opinion that 33 quid is cheap, isn't exacerbating the situation, and you complaining that the add-on is too expensive and full of bugs isn't mitigating the situation. In short, we know this is the deal with Carenado add-on's, but they sell. You highlighting the deficiencies is achieving nothing to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Before we get too deeply involved in this discussion about value for money, can I say that this sort of discussion isn't truly objective. It serves to confirm our individual views about the various product lines we have experience with and what we have learned to expect from such devs. As you know, I'm a rotor-head and I find it difficult to find models that combine looks with relistic flight dynamics. The Dodo-Sim hits the mark - and is (or was when I bought it) $50! The Milviz 407 is good and well priced at the $20 I paid in a sale, recently. Many other models look fantastic but fly either like bricks (Autorotation? You're kidding!) or are so twitchy that the learning curve is too much for many purchasers. So, where does this discussion lead US? For sure, re-affirm your views on where you see dev's going in terms of value for money - I see no-one is mentioning PMDG, here! - but PLEASE let's avoid getting personal. It doesn't do the Hangar any good and it sure as hell makes some of us cross enough to stop pulling punches. Keep it clean guys and no punching below the belt. Seconds Out! Cheers -Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thanks for your opinions everyone, I can't see this topic going anywhere good from here so let's draw a line underneath it. Link to post Share on other sites
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