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Head/Eye tracking advice

hlminx

By hlminx,
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hlminx

hlminx 301

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For quite a wile now, I've been toying with the idea of making it easier to get around all the buttons and switches in my most complicated aircraft (PMDG J41, 737NG and 747), so I have been looking at TrackIR and the new Tobii EyeX.

 

Although the Tobii looks really interesting and dispenses with the need to wear a hat, or a headset, it doesn't appear to be capable of zooming in or out, and makes it a little too hard to look down at the keyboard/panels etc. without feeling sick when the screen is constantly moving.

 

Oculus Rift wouldn't interest me as its far too expensive, and you can't 'share' the experience, so bang goes me helping hubby land when he takes the controls.

 

I'm left with TrackIR, but I don't seem to be able to find out what the difference is between TrackIR4 an TrackIR5.. Some googled reports say that its smoother, but from what I have read, it uses the same software.  There are IR4's about for less than £90, but the IR5 is anything from £130 upwards (plus delivery).  Is it really that much of an improvement ?

 

The last question is around the need (or not) of camera software like EZDok.  Is it necessary? Can I get away without it? What will I NOT be able to do with TrackIR but without EZDok ?

 

Can someone offer any advice ?

 

Cheers guys 'n' gals

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allardjd

allardjd 1,853

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I believe there is some difference in both the "camera" and the software.  I only got a brief look at TrackIR4.  The camera had a mode where a bright blue light  (or was it two - I don't remember) appeared on the camera, I think for use in a backlighted room.  The TrackIR doesn't have that and is better.  When trying the 4 model we had all kinds of problems, particularly in certain positions the point of view would just "tip over" as if your head had fallen off your shoulders.  None of that has happened with the 5. Yeah, it's really that much of an improvement.

 

You mention "feeling sick".  When I first started using the TIR5 I could only leave it on for about five or ten minutes at a time before a mild nausea would set in.  After a short time with it, a week or two, that went away completely and I can wear it for hours now.

 

Zooming is a great feature.  You lean in a little and the panel gets bigger - very smooth, very realistic.  One of the effects that I particularly like is moving the head sideways a little to keep traffic in view when he's disappeared behind a window post.  Another, when in a Cessna or other high-wing AC, is leaning down and forward and looking to the side when parked at the hold line, to get a better view under the wing for traffic on final.  You can also realistically crane your head to look around the yoke at gauges that are partially masked by it.

 

I have no experience with any of the others but am pretty happy with the TrackIR and their Pro-Clip, which is an array of active IR light sources on your headset bow, instead of trying to use reflected light from their camera.  The hat clip with the reflectors is not nearly as good, but yeah, you have to use a headset.  I do anyway, so no problem for me.

 

John

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hlminx

hlminx 301

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Thanks for the swift reply John :-)

 

Sounds like the IR5 is worth the extra cash, plus the headset clip also sounds like getting (there is a version for sale with just the hat reflector)..

 

One thing that has just sprung to mind is that my head is actually Quite a bit lower than the top of my monitors (3 x 32"), will it still work if the box on the top of the monitors is higher (its almost 8 - 10" higher than my head!)  I can put my seat up a bit but the clamp under my Saitek Yoke doesn't give me much space to work with as it is..

 

Cheers

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allardjd

allardjd 1,853

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I'm using it with a 32" monitor.  The top of my head is about 4" lower than the top of the monitor when sitting up straight and I slouch a lot. 

 

The mounting bracket for the TIR camera is pretty tricky and can be adjusted to point directly toward you - it swivels side to side and tilts up and down.  With the ProClip the camera has to be offset toward the left edge of the monitor since the IR LEDs it is tracking are to the left of your face.  Mine seems to work fine.

 

John

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hlminx

hlminx 301

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Hi John

 

Thanks for clarifying on that point. Hubby seems to think we might be able to lower the monitors slightly but that would be a nightmare, so as long as it can tilt down, that should work.

 

Do you have EZdok at all ?  Not sure birthday funds will stretch to much more than the IR5, but would be useful to know if its just a nice to have or a "can't live without it" gadget..

 

Cheers

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hlminx

hlminx 301

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You got it working ok then?

Is out of the box and the software is downloaded. Need to find my old headset in the loft though (hubby has 'tidied' too efficientry! )

If I can't find it after work tomorrow I'm going to set up the cap option till I can get a new cheap headset. With surround sound I don't need the headset to work..just need to attach the IR clip to it.

:D

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stu7708

stu7708 244

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As for EZ-Dok I love it once you've managed to set it up but it is in noway needed for use with TrackIR.

 

The upside I can see with using it is that you can set up your own camera views independently from the views supplied by the developer of the plane , and define for each view if it accepts input from TrackIR or not. So for example you can set up a view in the NGX that is zoomed in on the FMC and disable TrackIR input and all dynamic head movement for that camera giving you a rock solid view for programming the FMC. If you want to achieve this with out EZ-Dok there is the option to bind a button or key to temporarily disable the input from TrackIR.

 

The downside is that you will need to spend time to set up views for each non-default plane in EZ-dok if you can't find a profile to download from somewhere.

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Captain Coffee

Captain Coffee 2,030

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Hope you enjoy it.

I love my TrackIR5...it is the first thing I turn on before starting a sim session...mainly because it can be a bit buggy on start up for me, so I start it up first so that no other demands are being made on the machine. I find my most successful way to start Tir5 is to double click the shortcut icon, wait for the "Do you want to allow this program to open" window to pop up. Then I count to 8-10 Mississippi before clicking the OK button. 7 out of 10 times it will open on first try that way. If I "rush click" and forgo the Mississippi count...9 out of 10 starts will Error/Crash.

 

For immersion into the Sim, I don't think anything comes as close to TrackIR other than maybe a very fine VC interior...put the two together and add good sound, and you can get very close to believing you are actually In The Bird.

 

I don't have EZDock, but it looks like it could be very useful for video use...maybe someday. For now, I am happy to have recently learned how to adjust the "chase camera" distance from the plane without affecting the overall magnification...helps immensely to compose screen shots. (Ctrl-  and  Ctrl+)

 

Cheers.

 

p.s. I have both the hat clip and the headset clip...I think the headset works slightly better because of the active IR leds, compared to the passive reflectors on the hat clip, however, for convenience and ear comfort ( I don't have a very good headset, not terribly comfy on my big ears)  I have been mostly using the hat clip lately, especially since getting 5.1 speakers installed in my boat.

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hlminx

hlminx 301

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Oh my giddy aunt... this is soooo good !

 

Thanks for all the advice and comments about TIR5 and EZDock.. think I'll stick with just TIR for the moment as I can pretty much do most of what I want to without the extra expense of the camera software.

 

I have got it set up, and have just been for a couple of circuits in the C12, PC12, 3NG and the Jetstream.

 

Just a few observations:

  • I'll definitely need to tone down the movement as its a bit erratic at the mo
  • I have had 3 CTDs in the space of an hour (smart assembly error message, but I have all my .NET modules so heaven knows what the matter is). I might try Matt's 8 to 1 Mississippi
  • My FPS seems to be quite a bit lower than normal so I may need to write a new .cfg and turn the settings down a bit - does anyone else note a huge drop in FPS ?

Apart from the above, all of which can be solved with some time and effort, I'm well chuffed !  :thumbup:

 

Cheers all

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allardjd

allardjd 1,853

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One tip from a long time TIR user - - - if there's something you have to adjust frequently with the mouse, holding your head completely still is nearly impossible and it's difficult, particularly if it's something that requires multiple clicks (manually tuning radios is the best example I can think of) - you end up playing what I refer to as "mouse pointer archery".  Single-click items are not so bad but if you have to click something repeatedly it tends to float out from under your mouse pointer because of minor head movement.

 

The solution for me is to define a custom pop-up for the aircraft in panel.cfg with the necessary instruments/controls on it.  Open that pop-up, un-dock it and drag it to your second monitor as part of your pre-flight set-up.  That window will remain steady and not be affected by minor head movements when you need to multi-click on something within it.

 

Happy to hear you like it.

 

Re the frame rates, no basis for comparison - I only fly 2D without TIR and, of course 3D with it, so hard to compare frame rates.  I get decent performance with TIR5 on an i7 2600 @ 3.48 GHz, but don't fly PMDG (or any tube-o-chairs) and don't have a lot of add-on scenery.  YMMV.

 

John

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mutley

mutley 4,497

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Hi Steph,

 

I set my motion control speed to 0.7 and it works better for me .

 

According to Naturalpoint .NET is not required for TrackIR https://forums.naturalpoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9331 so it's curious you are getting CTDs.

 

I have only been flying a paraglider and a single prop (Victa Airtourer) so haven't been challenging my system much.Plus you have three screens.

 

Good luck with the tweaking.

 

:hat:

 

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wain

wain 879

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Got to say this is one of the best things I haver bought for my system, not just for flying though, I use it for numerous driving sims from Trucks, Coaches, Buses to F1 & Rally Cars....pricey but once you have it working its great....

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Captain Coffee

Captain Coffee 2,030

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Taming the curves...that took me a lot of fiddling with each view axis till i got it where i like it. None of the stock curves worked for me...but Smooth ended up being the best start point to fiddle from.

Good luck.

Regarding ctds...have no clue. I only ever have start issues, tir5 works great for me once it loads up.

I am not sure if it affects my FR...I'll have to experiment with that now that you piqued my curiosity.

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