Orbx PAYPAL Users

[dogtrack 346]

Just found out that ORBX have stopped taking Paypal as a means of payment.  Have been a Paypal user since the mid to late 90's.  Never liked the idea of handing over CC details to vendors then or now.  Alas that takes me out of the ORBX customer list as far as any new purchases are concerned....a sad day for me at least.  But I have never conducted business online with any vendor/service that has failed to permit payment by PAPAL....call me old fashioned, paranoid even but that's just me.

 

Fortunately, I have a large collection of the above mentioned scenery.  So it will not be doing any growing in the foreseeable future, a shame, but I can live with it.

[mutley 4,498]

Wow, that is very short-sight IMO, I always use PayPal too.

 

 

 

[Holdit 106]

Several unhappy customers at Orbx's forums have registered their disapproval...and their intention to stop buying Orbx.  We'll see...

 

I prefer PayPal also, but I have occasionally bought with a credit card, although maybe I should be more careful that way. I have planned to make a couple of Orbx purchases in their current sale, but I was wavering...as a result of this announcement, I think I'll wait. There are other things to spend the money on anyway.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Holdit

[Captain Coffee 2,030]

Major bummer...all my online buying is through PayPal. I really hope they reconsider that. It's not that I don't trust ORBx, but I trust PayPal's encryption/protection/anti-hacking far more than a Small Business' ability to keep up with hackers...I'd prefer they concentrate their efforts on scenery making. :/

 

Edit: I see, they are switching to some payment gateway called "stripe". Never heard of it.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Captain Coffee

[wain 879]

wow thats a shocker, I use PP for most of my FS stuff, guess I will be making do with the scenery I have for the moment, seems a little like they are out of touch, maybe Stripe is an Aussie version of PP?

[mutley 4,498]

PayPal does tend to be a bit "Big Brotherish" in the way they sideon the buyers side and are very quick to charge back and penalise the merchant. I can understand their desire to move away but perhaps they should offer both and leave it up to their customers to decide.

[brett 2,316]

I'm with everyone else, use PP and usually will not purchase something without it, I have actually decided not to buy a product many times because they didn't offer that service. Never heard of Stripe either, maybe something they have an "IN" with and with ORBX's track record I would prefer a payment service that does side with the customer. Hope the dumbasses change their mind but maybe they have done me a favor and it will save me money down the road. 

[needles 1,013]

It would be a decent move I feel if JV would publish the reasons behind this decision. Perhaps then, we would have a clearer idea as to the move Orbx has made. 

 

[brett 2,316]

It usually comes down to money and if he hasn't already explained why I would guess the reasoning wouldn't sound right or there wasn't a way to spin it. The saddest part is you can't complain to loudly over there or you will be history.

[J G 927]

It does seem a bit strange.  It is probably down to money and perhaps PP being a bit heavy handed. I wonder if ORBX looked at their customer base and specifically the percentage of their customers who use PP. I would imagine that either it is smaller than you would assume or there has been some sort of disagreement.

[Jess-b 420]

Here's some clarification from orbx and JV on what's happened. Needless to say, you can't run a business without funds!

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'll keep this as brief as possible. Firstly, my sincere apologies for removing PayPal as a payment option for now, but we had no choice as you will see below. I am on the phone to PayPal daily and working with them to resolve the situation. I am sure Orbx is not the first business in the world to face this problem but their timing could not be worse, right after our store opening and during a sale. We're as outraged as you all are, that much I can promise you.

 

I love using PayPal myself, have done for years. It's quick, convenient and secure. It's also the first time we have been on the other side of the fence as a merchant.

 

So here is the facts, although as you can understand there are delicate confidential business discussions taking place which would be foolish for me to disclosure until the matter is settled.

 

• On November 29th PayPal informed me our account was under review and limited.
• This limitation was restricted to Orbx not being allowed to close our PP account. Not a problem for us
• The reason cited was the sudden huge increase in $ and transaction volume since our store opened
• PP requested company documentation to clarify what business we are in - this was provided immediately
• We heard nothing more about the matter, but I thought this would be a formality and the limitation lifted
• On December 6th PP informed me our account was further limited
• This time we were unable to move any money out of our merchant account, effectively freezing our funds
• Extensive further documentation was requested and immediately provided
• I called PP every two days expecting the review to be concluded.
• Meantime the merchant account balance was growing;  I normally do a transfer each Monday
• When the merchant account balance grew to six figures and with no resolution in sight, I made the decision to stop all PP payments
• We now have a substantial amount of our income held by PP until this review is concluded
• We have no promise this money will be released
• We have no choice then, but to protect both the interests of Orbx and its developers to ensure they are paid for their hard work
• If we fail to resolve the issue then many customers would have  'bought' and effectively gotten free products

 

We will continue to call PP daily, as I have just done. I have been requested more documentation today which I provided. I hope, along with all our staff and of course you as customers, that PP can complete this review and allow us the confidence to use their service again.

 

We did not feel it was appropriate to reveal this information to you yesterday because it is business confidential and frankly, we're not obliged to tell you. But after waking up to the furore on the forums this morning, and the rampant conjecture that has been going on at many forums, I thought I would reveal as much as I can without actually risking jeopardising the PP account review.

 

So .... it appears some people like to think Orbx is doing its best to push customers away with V2 migration, OrbxDirect, FTXCv3 and now this PayPal situation. The truth is that we have had a vision for some years to make the way our customers interact, purchase and maintain our software the simplest and easiest on the market. Sure, there have been bumps in the road. Sure, there are bugs outstanding. But Rome was not built in a day and I believe we are heading in the right direction. We have closed over 2,000 Zendesk tickets since the store opened. We have hired two permanent support staff to deal with issues. Ben is working some very long hours on coding and other tasks. We feel your pain, but we know most issues will be resolved eventually.

 

Orbx is not going anywhere soon. We have a lot of very exciting plans for 2017 and beyond. Plans that move us beyond just FSX/P3D and into some of the most ambitious projects we have ever conceived. We are spending many hundreds of thousands of dollars on R&D in 2017 and this is without any guarantee of success. But where there is no risk there is no reward. So watch this space! 

 

Allow me again to apologise for a situation that was NOT in our control, not planned, nor desired. I hope to have it end in a positive outcome as soon as possible but the matter is not in my hands.

 

Thanks for your continued loyalty to Orbx products and your support in 2016, I hope you will give us the chance to grow into new ventures in 2017 and come along for the journey ...

 

A great festive season to all of you!

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Regards,

JV

[dogtrack 346]

A very interesting history of events.  All is not yet lost, it seems.

[J G 927]

I wish that guys at ORBX the best in getting the PP thing resolved, and I for one can understand their predicament.

 

I like the way ORBX has changed of late, it helps me know where I am with my ORBX collection and helps me to make choices when buying a new product of theirs.

 

Lets hope PP is back soon, but if it isn't, I wont be deserting ORBX as their scenery is just too good.

[Tim_A 997]

Ouch. Paypal has a history of being heavy handed and penalising businesses for no ultimately good reason. Let's hope it gets resolved quickly (I too was going to buy something in the sale, and naturally, using Paypal . . .)

[Holdit 106]

3 hours ago, Jess-b said:

Here's some clarification from orbx and JV on what's happened. Needless to say, you can't run a business without funds!

 [big snip]bcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabc

 

I'll be the first to say I don't much like the Orbx attitude at times, but JVs explanation above seems to be to be a good one. I can understand why little information was given out when the announcement was made, but perhaps the right amount would have, paradoxically, been even less. Something like "..due to technical reasons...". Statements like "PayPal no longer meets our requirements" which makes it sound like a business decision, would be bound to fuel a fire of speculation.

 

It sounds to me like it will indeed be resolved, and to be fair to Orbx, having that much money frozen must be a bit scary. I don't blame them one bit for the decision they took. 

[needles 1,013]

@Jess-b, thanks for posting JVs statement, it makes very interesting reading.

Also, thanks to JV for his explanation of the why's and wherefores of PayPal's actions.

I just hope that for Orbx and all the developers therein, get the situation resolved as quickly as possible, so that they can all get paid for the outstanding work they produce for us. 

As I use Paypal to purchase items and not a merchant, I find their attitude towards companies like Orbx, unbelievably heavy handed. I had no idea they treated companies this way and can only hope their methods improve in the future.

All the very best to Orbx in getting a resolution to this dilemma asap.

[brett 2,316]

Well I was kind of right, it was about money. Not sure if we are hearing the whole story but if true I condemn Paypal for this practice as they have been working with them long enough. I would love to hear PP's side of the story too.

 

I really do like the products they have and have spent mucho money on it to this point, although not a fan of the store and wished they did a bit more work before rolling out all of their changes it is nice to see them doing their best to improve the products. If it was up to me I would have started out by figuring a way to keep their cities and towns from being cut off at angles.  

 

 

[allardjd 1,853]

Just some thoughts and experience using credit cards for on-line purchases...

 

There's very little reason to be fearful of using the credit card alternative to PP for on-line purchases with a caveat or two.  Obviously, you should be sure that the company you are making a purchase from is a bona fide and reasonably reputable business, and that the site you are making the purchase from is really theirs. You should also, obviously, monitor your credit card account to be sure that fraudulent charges are not being made against it.  That can be done quickly and easily on line. 

 

Those cautions aside, there's not much to be concerned about.  Credit card companies invariably allow you to contest and stop payment on card purchases within a (typically) 30-day period.  If a card is compromised by a hack or a fraudulent purchase, the card companies are very prompt and efficient about killing the card (not the account) and sending a new one with a different number immediately.  I've had it happen three times when fraudulent purchases were made with my card.  In all three, they notified me of the problem before I was even aware of it.  In one case, I received the new card on a Sunday by overnight express courier.  

 

Credit card companies are generally very good about monitoring your personal purchasing profiles and raising a flag if something doesn't seem kosher. I once got a phone call from my card company saying that someone had made a small purchase with my card in London, England.  They wanted to know if it was really me.  I had purchased a Just Flight download product about ten minutes before.  That impressed me.

 

In another case, while visiting relatives about 500 miles from home over a long weekend, we made a fairly large purchase at a home improvement store at the away-from-home location.  The card company halted the transaction and we had to call them on our cell phone on the spot, while standing at the register, answering the standard "security questions" they had on file for us to prove it was really us making the purchase before it went through.  

 

I'm no expert but as I understand it, many companies now use some kind of "hashing" algorithm for storage of sensitive credit card information and even if hacked and stolen, it is somewhere north of impossible for hackers to extract usable data from stolen files.  I'm not sure how prevalent that system is but, where used, it certainly adds some safety. 

 

I've used credit cards for hundreds of on-line purchases over many years and have never lost a dime.  The only time I've ever been cheated was on an eBay transaction where the buyer claimed he never received what I'd sent, even though I had an e-mail from him acknowledging that he'd received it.  He later claimed he hadn't and eBay sided with him.  

 

If PP are being jerks and affecting your ability to make purchases from businesses you know and trust, vote with your wallet and use someone else's services.  If their policies drive enough customers away, they'll change them or they'll find themselves out of business.  In my opinion, credit cards are a safe, convenient and completely viable alternative.

 

John

[mutley 4,498]

JV's explanation rings true to me. As I mentioned earlier, PayPal acts like big brother, i.e. judge and jury and if they are withholding a six figure sum from Orbx then that could result in major financial difficulties for the company, surely PayPal can prove the validity of Orbx as not being a money launderer in less than a day, or don't they have any business intelligence?  Meanwhile PayPal get more cash rich and powerful and the merchants suffer.