wisemanp 0 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Seems almost certainly to be a gonner now... There seem to be conflicting reports of what time the radar contact was lost... if everyone would report in UTC it would be so much clearer! Lets hope the Brazilian Military can find something... Link to post Share on other sites
colwah 0 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 God bless the crew and passengers If they are all dead then may they Rest In Peace!! Link to post Share on other sites
A320cap 0 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Latest information say the plane had reported an electrical failure when flying through a thunderstorm Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 BBC were reporting it was 3 hours from Paris earlier! Why the difference? Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Quote Why the difference? You should know by now that the media never get anything right in the early stages of aviation accidents. Wait until the "nose dive" articles start to appear later today, with nothing whatever to back them up. I hope that they lost communications and managed a controlled descent and ditching and that a lot of people will be found floating around in life rafts - chances are that's not how it's going to work out, but one can hope. John Link to post Share on other sites
A320cap 0 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 john, I believe you are a bit too optimistic. A) a ditching in an ocean is extremely difficult and if they did manage to ditch, wouldn't they be carried away by the large ocean waves? Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Latest news is they are sending out the Brazilian Air Force, perhaps they have a good idea where they were when they lost radar contact? Link to post Share on other sites
fighterpilot 0 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 On the swedish newspaper they say it was lightning that hit the aircraft, I don't belive that, becouse: 1. If there is a thunderstorm, they fly around it. I haven't heard any captains that fly throu it. 2. planes have been hit by lightining thousends of times, but the plane is still in the air and continue to their destination have I read. and another thing, some newspaper says it was hijacked, that the plane exploded. But they did report serve turbulens on the radio says another newspaper.... Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Timeline of Flight AF 447 Map showing Flight AF 447 timeline Details are emerging of the events leading up to the disappearance of an Air France flight from Brazil to France in the early hours of Monday. Flight AF 447 left Rio de Janeiro, bound for Paris, at 1900 local time (2200 GMT) on Sunday 31 May. The aircraft in question, an Airbus A330-200 with registration F-GZCP, had been in operation since April 2005. Shortly after the aircraft's scheduled arrival time in Paris of 1110 local time (0910 GMT), it was announced that the flight was missing. Here is what is known so far: 2200 GMT, Sunday 31 May: AF 447 takes off from Rio de Janeiro's Galeao International Airport, heading for Paris Charles de Gaulle. 0133 GMT, Monday 1 June: Last radar contact with flight AF 447, according to the Brazilian air force. The jet had just passed the Fernando de Noronha islands, about 350 km (217 miles) off the coast of Brazil. Graphic of Airbus A330 0200 GMT: The aircraft crossed through a "thunderous zone with strong turbulence" according to an Air France statement. 0214 GMT: According to the airline, an automated message was received indicating an "electrical circuit malfunction" on board. 0715 GMT: Air France decided "the situation was serious", according to the airline's chief executive Pierre Henri Gourgeon. Plans to establish a crisis centre are drawn up. 0910 GMT: Aircraft was due to land at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport. 0935 GMT: Paris airport officials announce to the public that flight AF 447 is missing. 1017 GMT: Brazil's air force confirms a search and rescue operation is under way near the Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha. 1036 GMT: Air France confirms it is "without news" from the aircraft. 1116 GMT: Senior French minister Jean-Louis Borloo says the plane would have run out of fuel by this point, and adds: "We must now envisage the most tragic scenario." He rules out a hijacking. 1140 GMT: Brazil's air force says Flight AF 447 was "well advanced" over the Atlantic Ocean when it went missing. 1142 GMT: Air France confirms it received a message about an electrical fault from the aircraft. 1213 GMT: Air France suggests the electrical fault may have been caused by the plane suffering a lightning strike. 1303 GMT: Prime Minister Gordon Brown says he fears British citizens may be on board the aircraft. 1515 GMT: It is reported that most of the 228 people on board the missing airliner are Brazilian, while at least 40 are French and 20 are German, according to a French minister. 1632 GMT: An Air France spokesman confirms there are 80 Brazilians on board the missing plane, as well as German, Italian, American, Chinese, British and Spanish citizens. 1651 GMT: French President Nicolas Sarkozy says the prospect of finding survivors from the flight is "very slim". Link to post Share on other sites
wisemanp 0 Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Marcus, I heard a former BA pilot speaking earlier about an Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone: The Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ), also known as the Intertropical Front, Monsoon trough, or the Equatorial Convergence Zone, is a belt of low pressure girdling Earth at the equator. It is formed by the vertical ascent of warm, moist air from the latitudes north and south of the equator.The air is drawn into the intertropical convergence zone by the action of the Hadley cell, a macroscale atmospheric feature which is part of Earth's heat and moisture distribution system. It is transported aloft by the convective activity of thunderstorms; regions in the intertropical convergence zone receive precipitation over 200 days in a year. Maybe he could not fly round it... The BA pilot also mentioned the 'automated short-circuit message', saying that it could point towards a cockpit fire. Ditching would be extremely difficult on the Atlantic, especially at night when one can't see. A Mayday may not have been at the top of the pilots' priorities, especially on the harder-to-use HF Radio that is used over the mid-Atlantic. Lets hope some people are found alive Link to post Share on other sites
fighterpilot 0 Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Good point Phil One thing tho, isen't the blackbox givning away a location when these things happend? Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 No, the black boxes transmit nothing, except sonar pings when they go in the water to aid recovery. They record information, they do not transmit it. Apparently the highly automated airbus did transmit a signal that indicated an electrical malfunction - reports this morning also say that it reported a cabin depressurization. New things I'm seeing in the news today are... - the report of cabin depressurization. - debris has been spotted which is far enough off the planned flight path to cause some speculation that the AC may have made a turn and was attempting to return. - A Brazillian airliner passing through the area headed toward Brazil saw orange lights on the water at about the place and time of the crash. The pilot now thinks those were flames. - the event location is far beyond any ATC radar coverage. Though this is entirely speculation with not a shred of evidence to support it, I wouldn't be too quick to rule out terrorism yet at this early stage. It's unlikely anything except recovery of the CVR and FDR will resolve that and the recovery will be extremely difficult in deep water. It's important that the effort be made so the industry can learn the cause of this - if the A330 has a previosly unknown defect or vulnerability it's extremely important to uncover that. Something made it come down - maybe the weather phenomenon Phil documents. The recorders should tell that. John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Some more things to consider.... The bomb threat was apparently in Brazil a few days before this flight. Airbus A330 Computer 'Susceptible to Interference' http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,524837,00.html Air France Bomb Threat Before Flight 447 Crash http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,524835,00.html Link to post Share on other sites
wisemanp 0 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Many people will by now have built up suspiscions and speculations, but I don't see how we can deduce much more without recovery of several crucial items... i.e FDR, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 I like the 'undated photo'. It was taken on May 19, 2006 by Nathan Zalcman of AirTeamImages - link to photo Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 From AVWeb Biz: "The aircraft sent about four minutes of telemetry to the airline's maintenance base indicating catastrophic failures in at least 12 systems..." John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Quote Heavy seas hamper search for Flight 447 debris There's quite a lot more detail here about the system failures contained in the telemetry message(s) sent to the Air France maintenance facility from AF #447 in the final minutes. It sounds as if things were coming unglued pretty quickly. There is also a statement in this article about 100 mph updraft velocities in the area. No aircraft has any business near that... http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20090603/4a25f540_3ca6_1552620090603565438592 John Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hi John, Great link, we knew about the data bursts sent back to AF but not what sort of information they contained. The spread of debris and the 12-mile-long oil slick is remarkable and really brings it home and makes it so poignant. It's looking like the worst loss of life in AF's history. Tragic. Link to post Share on other sites
wisemanp 0 Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Puzzling, this one! I think these automated messages could become the key to finding much out... I wonder if they'll ever find much of the plane? Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525043,00.html More details. The only really new thing here is an allegation that Airbus was about to publish new recommended speeds for penetrating extreme turbulence and that this AC may have been flying too slowly, per the new, but yet unissued guidance. Bad weather persists in the area making debris recovery or much of anything else useful nearly impossible. The pingers on the CVR and FDR are only supposed to be good for 30 days, and the clock started ticking the moment they sensed water. It would be a shame if those cannot be located and recovered. It does seem that the Airbus capabiliy to send system telemetry to the Air France maintenance base automatically has proven to be very useful. That kind of thing is likely to become more prevalent. In the future, it might be possible to have an AC that senses itself to be in extremis send a burst transmission with some or all of the FDR and CVR data in that manner - kind of a deathbed confession. John Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6430398.ece More yet on the new recommendations from Airbus. I'm getting the sense that there is more detail in the telemetry bursts from the AC than has been released so far. John Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 kind of a deathbed confession. That sends shivers down my spine, but well put John. It's strange about what was in the link you posted there as yesterday I was watching an episode of Air Crash Investigation where the aircraft was caught inside a CB super cell and what came out of the investigation is that pilot should have increased trust to maintain pitch. Weird. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Two bodies and some objects have been recovered... It appears finger-pointing between Airbus and Air France has begun. Airbus would like it to be either pilot error or a maintenance issue that can be laid at the feet of the owners. Air France would lke it to be most ANYTHING other than those. John http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aFrub7r3e2nM&refer=worldwide Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hmm. A typical French crash. Airbus won't say it's the A330 that's at fault (it's some other cause, like crew error) whil Air France are saying it's not airline/crew problem (it's Airbus' fault) I somehow doubt the investigation won't tell us about everything that happened onboard flight 447. May God rest their souls Link to post Share on other sites
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