Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER Missing In Flight

[hurricanemk1c 195]

There is an exception rule in place. English is the official recognised language for air traffic control, however there is an opt-out. A good few years ago there was an accident at Paris (Orly I think) where the controller was talking French to an Air Liberté flight and English to another (Shorts 330). Result - the S330 entered the runway too early and the co-pilot was killed. Russia also opts out but more for deep dark internal stuff (I believe to fly solo in a General Aviation aircraft in Russia you have to be fluent in Russian)

[J G 927]

What Kieran says is true, but the opt out is only allowed for crews of the same nationality as the ATC and in their air space. The French and Spanish are the main users of the opt-out in Europe the Germans and Dutch would never use it.

 

However the 777 was Malaysian and in Malaysian or Vietnamese air space, so a Chinese language opt-out would not be within the rules. 

[hurricanemk1c 195]

'Pallets and belts/straps spotted in search area'

 

More info here

[dodgy-alan 1,587]

As the article correctly says, these are often used on ships as well. Having been a seaman I can tell you that an awful lot of "Gash" (Sailors nickname for rubbish)gets dumped over the side during a voyage and once in international waters.

[britfrog 180]

full size containers are not an uncommon site, and I am sure some of the satellite photography in this search, has located a few ,  the problem with them is they tend to float just below the water and you dont see them till you hit one , the new super container ships lose a few regularly after all they can carry 18,000 containers, if not more, so to lose a dozen or so in a heavy sea is nothing to them.

 

[brett 2,315]

Made me think of this;

 

[Quickmarch 488]

It would appear that the Malasian Authorities are convinced they have found the evidence they need. Strange, because Inmarsat is a satellite phone system similar to Iridium. I wonder if they did hear something from the plane?

 

This quote from Toronto Star report today: “We must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.”

That first definitive information about the whereabouts of the passenger jet that vanished 17 days ago is based on analysis from Inmarsat of satellite data, Razak said.

Razak spoke after being briefed by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, which produced new information with Inmarsat “using a type of analysis never before used in an investigation of this sort,” he said.

 

 

[MyPC8MyBrain 273]

something isn’t sitting right with this statement

a new analyses way never been used before

why didn’t they used it before; and why all of a sudden its accurate in this case

if that’s the case; they should have a location lock

and this location needs to be full with visible debris

they should all be there already with news teams; and every rescue team available to humans

[allardjd 1,853]

It may be that the new method has never been needed before this; this is a pretty unusual set of circumstances. Usually when an airliner disappears there's a pretty good idea where it is. Not saying I'm buying into this new methodology at face value but it's plausible. Will wait for details.

 

I hope debris is found but given 17 days to drift on wind and surface currents, if found it's going to be a long, long way from the point of impact, which is where the seafloor debris field will be. Someone had better get a clue pretty soon. The acoustic pingers on the FDR and CVR are over half way through their design battery life.

 

John

[britfrog 180]

I still favour the diego garcia idea, all this stalling is giving the guys there enough time to break up the plane, put it on a ship go a few hundred miles out to sea and chuck it overboard to be found by guess who?

even if this scenario isnt correct something smells very wrong to me.

[jaydor 345]

I have to agree with Nigel, this has all the hallmarks of an intelligence led disappearance operation with, I bet, the CIA and Brutish (yes, I did say Brutish = British) fingerprints all over it.

 

There was someone or something on board that airliner that was detrimental to the US..

 

To destroy it in one of the deepest and most hostile parts of the world would make the black box un-recoverable..

 

You will find that as the investigation track back to point of impact, it will be at the deepest point and far from any shipping lanes..

[dodgy-alan 1,587]

The area where that aircraft is supposed to have gone down is incredibly deep, up to 5 km in some parts. It's an area I know all to well.If it's down there it will never be recovered as there is nothing that can get down there with enough lifting capacity to bring up the wreck. The large "debris" area identified could indicate that the aircraft had gone well past its VNE and was breaking up as it came down. The Recce aircraft have dropped marker bouys in the debris area so that surface ships can find it. Only a definate id on those parts will show if it really is the missing aircraft. Either way it looks as though the families will never get the bodies of their loved ones home. 

[MyPC8MyBrain 273]

this at least can be verified if true; an unmanned submarine can dive today up 6.8 miles!

 

[Andrew Godden 943]

something isn’t sitting right with this statement

a new analyses way never been used before

why didn’t they used it before; and why all of a sudden its accurate in this case

if that’s the case; they should have a location lock

and this location needs to be full with visible debris

they should all be there already with news teams; and every rescue team available to humans

 

This new analysis, as John said, is a method which has never had to be employed before.

 

It involves extrapolating data from the satellites in an attempt to refine the plane's location.  By virtue of the fact of extrapolation, it is not a precise science and produces a location error similar to the triangle of error created in the resection of three points in navigation.

 

The significant difference is, the extrapolation process is based on the time it takes for the ACARS 'ping' to be picked up by two Inmarsat satellites and this produces an exponential margin of error.  This extrapolated location is also only linear as only two satellites are involved in the analysis of determining the location and, therefore, an area location has to be extrapolated further from the process, thereby introducing even more margins of error.  Certainly not conducive to deriving a precise location lock.  Hence the daily search areas being measured in tens of thousands of square kilometres.

 

The Inmarsat satellites are a communications satellite, not a GPS satellite, and are not capable of providing precise location fixes.

 

This more recent detailed analysis though, would appear to have refined the area in which the search should be focused.

 

Cheers

Andrew

[britfrog 180]

Being an absolute thicko, can someone explain to me what sense there is in searching for a pinger in one of the biggest oceans on earth, when there has not been 1 solitary item of wreckage anywhere to even confirm that the plane has crashed anywhere near where they are looking. Planes are filled with loads of foam which will float for years and cannot crash without leaving a load of traces, unless of course it never crashed  - - - - - - -

[jaydor 345]

Being an absolute thicko, can someone explain to me what sense there is in searching for a pinger in one of the biggest oceans on earth, when there has not been 1 solitary item of wreckage anywhere to even confirm that the plane has crashed anywhere near where they are looking. Planes are filled with loads of foam which will float for years and cannot crash without leaving a load of traces, unless of course it never crashed  - - - - - - -

 

 

As the old song goes Nigel;   "The answer my friend is written on the wind"

 

I bet there are people who know the answer, sitting in Langley US and Cheltenham UK.. 

[brett 2,315]

I bet the conspiracy theorists are drooling over this one. There is so little evidence available that they can really go to town with their own theories.

[hifly 925]

You're right Brett. With no evidence, maybe the whole scenario has been made up by conspiracy theorists. That's my conspiracy theory. 

[brett 2,315]

Haha, you mean it's a big insurance job and all the passengers are living on a deserted island with all kinds of resort amenities. Who knows, maybe there is a world leader order to blow up any planes thought to go rouge and then keep it quite because of the public outfall.  

 

I tend to think it's been a series of unfortunate events fueled by inept bureaucracy. May all those involved find peace.   

[hifly 925]

 May all those involved find peace.   

 

Hear! Hear!

 

[jaydor 345]

"Piece here piece there they are looking everywhere" 

[brett 2,315]

Sure.....maybe if the governments spend more time in figuring out ways to help mankind instead of lining their own and associated cronies pockets we, the masses, would be in a hellofa lot better shape when it comes to these types of situations. Hope they all choke on their greed and power hungry egos and that the meek Will inherit the Earth.

 

To much.....

[hifly 925]

Hear! Hear! +100

[stu7708 244]

A 37,5 kHz transmission was found in the norther parts of the current search area over the weekend...

 

Fingers crossed it's the flight recorder locator they've picked up...

 

According to a press conference it's thought to be located at a depth of 4.500 meters (14.800 feet).

 

 

[britfrog 180]

and still no wreckage????  hmmmmmm  I guess styrofoam and insulation and seat cushions etc do not float anymore, like they did for AF447,

putting conspriacies aside , there is more to this than people are letting on.

 

Oh we have moved the search area 1500 kms to the north, why?   you have found no wreckage there.

 

they cant even get their stories straight  3 boats pick up signals 600 kms apart ! i dont think so.  we need to verify that the signal is from the malasia flight, why is there more than one plane missing? how many black boxes are down there?

 

as far as conspiracies are concerned I still favour Diego Garcia the only weakness in this theory is how do you keep a thousand or two americans based there schtum?