Gunner 69 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 No hacker needed to lose control of an airplane... http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8530737/787-dreamliner-software-bug-faa Link to post Share on other sites
ddavid 149 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 More bugs creeping out of the woodwork, eh, Eddie? Good catch. Cheers - Dai. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 More here http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/01/us-aviation-authority-boeing-787-dreamliner-bug-could-cause-loss-of-control Let's hope the Mrs doesn't get wind of this as we are flying on one in a couple of weeks! Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce (a.k.a. brian747) 142 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 <grin> I bet that little gem doesn't make its way onto the syllabus of the courses for nervous passengers.... Cheers, bruce a.k.a. brian747 Link to post Share on other sites
britfrog 180 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 this is a storm in a tea cup and is not really news worthy it can only happen if the 787 is not powered down for some 200 odd days, the Jumbo had the same "bug" but needed to be left live for 120 days whilst i know modern a/c get turned around now pretty quickly it is virtually impossible for an a/c not to be turned off at some point every 48 hours let alone when a check comes up, so as usual the news blow it all out of proportion. Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 But all the same - surely they would have programmed it *slightly* differently to ensure that all 4 gens can't fail due to that problem. And also begs the question regarding the 787 - what else is hiding in the woodwork? We've had battery fires already that shouldn't have happened, the metal box fix, this, what next? I personally don't like the carbon fibre wings - look very nice but all that flexing over a 20 year life can't be good! Link to post Share on other sites
britfrog 180 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 But all the same - surely they would have programmed it *slightly* differently to ensure that all 4 gens can't fail due to that problem. And also begs the question regarding the 787 - what else is hiding in the woodwork? We've had battery fires already that shouldn't have happened, the metal box fix, this, what next? I personally don't like the carbon fibre wings - look very nice but all that flexing over a 20 year life can't be good! Both my wife and I have severe reservations about flying on one, for the same reasons. We have all seen how a formula one car shatters like glass if it hits anything, All you need is an area that for one reason or another didnt get the same temperature or depth of resin in the autoclave and give it a few bends and it will be bye bye. When i was flying I used to visit Lasham quite a lot as i had quite a few friends that worked there, and it would shock you the amount of jumbos, 777's etc that lost spoilers and parts of flaps due to fatigue , these were being repared at lasham, if they were found!! and what were they all made from??? carbon fibre!! its all very well saving weight on non critical flying surfaces , but the wing?? not for me m8 Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Something tells me Boeing would have considered something as obvious as fatigue. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Ah Nigel, good old Dan AIr they were notorious! Well, I'll say be goodbyes now then Link to post Share on other sites
hurricanemk1c 195 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 True Martin - but these are the same people who said the Lithium Ion battery would be perfectly safe in its original form. As I and Nigel said, it's our personal preferences and opinions Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Coffee 2,030 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Something tells me Boeing would have considered something as obvious as fatigue. Something tells me their accountants will have considered daily operational cost savings over the lifetme of the plane compared to the cost of the occasional damages from losing some lifetimes. but then I am cynical as F%@% Link to post Share on other sites
jaydor 345 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Ah Nigel, good old Dan AIr they were notorious! Well, I'll say be goodbyes now then Seen on a toilet wall @ Cardiff Airport in the early 80's: "If you wana scare, fly DanAir" Link to post Share on other sites
TomDangeroux 4 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'm sure everything will be fine Joe. Just make sure the pilots turn it off and on again before takeoff. Neighbours of ours, a young couple with a new baby were unfortunately on Dan Air 1008. They only lived about five houses along from us. Very sad. Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Thanks Tom! I will take my laptop along and see if I can hack into the flight systems as well Link to post Share on other sites
TomDangeroux 4 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 And you could Tweet your hacking progress on the official Mutley's Hanger Twitter feed. On second thoughts, just read a book. Link to post Share on other sites
brett 2,284 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Thanks Tom! I will take my laptop along and see if I can hack into the flight systems as well Maybe not now that you will be on the no-fly list. Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 As I and Nigel said, it's our personal preferences and opinions Yep, fair enough, I respect that, it's just yours and Nigel's preference and opinion. And my opinion is... True Martin - but these are the same people who said the Lithium Ion battery would be perfectly safe in its original form. Nothing new though. That sort of thing occurs with any new aircraft. There will be such issues, it's inevitable. Unforeseen issues will also occur throughout an aircrafts lifetime. I'm sure you remember the heat exchanger issue in the 777. Boeing believed that the exchanger's were sufficient to prevent fuel icing... they weren't. A redesign was required. No manufacturer of any aircraft has experienced zero issues. However, when it comes to something as critical as the very material a wing is constructed from, and the materials capability to withstand fatigue, then wings shattering like Formula 1 cars is something I don't believe you should be worrying about. Boeing went to the trouble of flexing the wings up to 1.5 times the extent they would flex in normal use. And don't forget, the wing had to satisfy not just Boeing, but pass FAA certification too! And I should add of course, it's not carbon fibre. It's carbon fibre reinforced plastic. One issue that arises with the new material is fire. However, tests demonstrated that the carbon fibre reinforced plastic actually performed better than metal in a fire test. Not only did it handle burn-through impressively but It also prevented toxic chemicals from entering the fuselage. But yes it's a new material, and perhaps issues may arise. But Boeing have designed the 787 to be repaired in exactly the same way as conventional aeroplanes are repaired, namely with the capability to perform bolted repairs. In addition, they can perform bonded composite repairs. So in my opinion given that it is a new material, and will be subjected to regular checks, and given that it's relatively easily maintained and repaired... no one should be fearful of flying in a 787. Airbus are heading in the same direction of course, namely carbon fibre reinforced polymers. So in time you may find yourself with a long list of aircraft you don't want to fly on. In fact the A350 will have more CFRP than the 787. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9Kato1CxA Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I don't care what anyone says. I don't want to go in one. End of. Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I don't care what anyone says. I don't want to go in one. End of. Will probably be a few years but you may eventually find yourself reverting to the sea then. Won't be any new, big airliners made without CFRP. At present we have the centre wing boxes and rear fuselage of the A380, the A400M, 787. Will be in the A350XWB. The A340 has a carbon fibre keel beam, 777 has components too. Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I have no worries about the material its made of, after all the Comet 1 was made of the tried and tested metals of the time and look what happened to that. Its the aircraft and the shortcomings its design seems to have that worries me, Not the material it is made of. Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Oh right. What shortcomings in design in particular? Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Perhaps you should do some reading about what lies behind the 787 problems since its launch. Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Coffee 2,030 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I can see some Tele-IT guy that reads this is going to be compelled to ask "Did you make sure to reboot your aircraft recently" upon boarding a flight... Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 You can see it cant you:- "Ladies and gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. May I ask that all data in laptops and hand held devices is saved now as I will shortly be re-booting the aircraft. There may be some changes to your comfort as the engines shut down, this will only be temporary and last only until the system has completed its reboot"". Followed by: Mayday - Mayday! this is flight 123, we are loosing height rapidly and have 148 updates to clear before re-boot!" Link to post Share on other sites
mutley 4,487 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Wow, I'm really looking forward to my flight now, I think I might cancel Link to post Share on other sites
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