wain 879 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Seems appropriate to ask in the summer. I have big cooler on CPU and that usually stays below 48...motherboard sneaking up a little lately only 40 but I was wondering if the enviroment is hot what do you guys do... I have lots of vents and built in cooling but if the room is hot it will only draw in warm air so what are the options.. Cool fan aimed at vents? Windows open to allow warm air to escape? Fan near rear of tower to push expelled air away? I have no issues but just curious to see what you do if your PC is in a room etc that gets quite hot.... Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
MyPC8MyBrain 273 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 first thing to remember is heat rises to the top! keep your PC unit as low to the ground as you can, you could install a radiator and a self-sustained AC for the PC itself if you wanted more cooling control check out http://oc3d.tv for great hardware discussions and performance test results Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce (a.k.a. brian747) 142 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 One quick tip: it definitely helps if you open the case and blow the dust out of the cooling fans every few months, with special attention given to the cooling fan for your cpu and its fins. (You can buy cans of compressed air for doing this from Maplin &c. — these are *much* more effective than any amount of huffing and puffing). When you see the amount of dust that gets dislodged by the short sharp bursts of air you will understand why your machine then runs a bit cooler than it did.... If your case is fitted with filters, be sure to carry out the manufacturer's recommended cleaning procedure for those, too. In view of the weather forecast (it turned out to be 32°C here in north-east Hampshire yesterday, and 36.7°C at Heathrow, just down the road) I carried out that procedure on my overclocked air-cooled machine last week, and it lowered my core temps by 6°C. (It would have had more effect if I hadn't done the procedure for a while so that the dust had had more opportunity to build up, of course). OK, 6°C isn't a huge amount, but it's worth having, IMO. And if your machine is situated in a fairly enclosed space (like mine — in a corner, under a desk), then using an external fan to keep cool air circulating around it can also help a little, in extreme conditions. Mind you, yesterday I had the fan pointed at *me*, TBH. Have a look at the wattage your power supply is rated at, and ask yourself how much of that gets converted into heat — not forgetting to add on the additional heat from your monitors, of course. No wonder that the heat from the racks of machines in big computer rooms is sufficient to heat the rest of the building, in many large installations I have worked on. Cheers, bruce a.k.a. brian747 Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Thanks for your replies Chris and Brian. Looked at a few of those vids some useful info on there. Tower is raised about 2 inches off floor and beside desk as opposed to under. I went for a larger tower giving more circulation. Just did an internal clean with compressed air, haven't done one for ages, seems to be running slightly cooler. I will be starting my next project build next year, this one i use now will be just over 2 years old, if I go for liquid cooler does that just effect the CPU or does it aid keeping the temps down everywhere? It takes me a while and a load of research before I even commit to buying the parts.... Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Have a look at the wattage your power supply is rated at, and ask yourself how much of that gets converted into heat — The correct answer to that question is, of course, all of it, all the time. The good news is that a 650 watt power supply is not necessarily supplying 650 watts - it depends on the loads it's serving, but for most any electrical device, virtually all the power it consumes ends up as heat, either in the power supply itself or in the connected loads. Think of the heat from an incandescent light bulb of any given wattage as a benchmark comparison and that should give you some idea how much heat your PC has to dissipate to remain alive. John Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce (a.k.a. brian747) 142 Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 i agree with much of what you said, John, but would contend that not *all* of it ends up as heat (and not all of the time); there is a small amount which actually does something useful. To take your light bulb example, some of the energy goes into producing electromagnetic radiation on a frequency which our eyes find helpful. So I would agree with your subsequent statement that "virtually all" of the energy ends up as heat, but not with your initial statement that all of it does. Similarly, although the wattage on the power supply represents a maximum figure which is hopefully seldom, if ever, achieved in practice, I have observed that many prebuilt macines such as Dells and the like specify everything down to a minimum level, so that a machine with a 400 watt power supply, for example, will probably draw 95% of that when working moderately hard. Personally, when building a powerful machine I always specify a PSU that can comfortably fulfill the maximum that the compoents can draw with at least 10% to spare, but that's my choice. (And perhaps bad economics, but certainly good engineering). But the real point that I was making which was relevant to the discussion in this thread was that there's a lot of watts of heat being liberated, which have to go somewhere. Cheers, B. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I have to agree with the part about PSU's and how prebuilt machines always edge on the low side, was surprised years ago when upgrading a GPU that I had to change PSU as it was below the minimum, I go for one that has more than needed. I have always assumed if the componet is not at full stretch all the time it produce less heat, I may be wrong though... Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce (a.k.a. brian747) 142 Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 For me, "not at full stretch" is more about having sufficient headroom for contingencies than anything else. Let me explain what I mean.... The last thing you want is for the PSU to be struggling to meet the demand, especially in a high-performance machine with hefty graphics cards and other power-hungry components. There are lots of references on the 'net on this topic (for example, look at http://compreviews.about.com/od/cases/a/PSUWattage.htm).A good analogy is HiFi sound. Most of the time 10 watts per channel might be enough for an average home. But if you bought an amp rated at that it would sound OK only until the guy on the kettledrum gave it a big thump, or the organist pulled out a sixtyfour foot stop for the really low notes, and suddenly everything goes pear-shaped whilst the amp can't cope and distortion sets in as a result.It's the same with the different components in your machine when you're running CPU-intensive stuff like FSX and high-power devices such as graphics cards. For much of the time, things average out and you're using only about 80% of the PSU's capacity. But if the peaks start to coincide because you're landing a complex aircraft at Heathrow....It all comes down to whether you're willing to risk it.... But since the price difference between a "just about copes" PSU and the next one up is usually small compared to the rest of the kit, I tend to opt for the safety shot, that's all. Just my 2ȼ.... Cheers,bruce a.k.a. brian747 Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Recently, because of the heat I have had a couple of issues. These were; One PC switching its self off and another losing sight of a HDD. Both were tower PCs and both were solved in the same way. I took apart the cases and reviewed the cooling fans I had in them.In the case of the switching off PC I added a new fan. Both PCs already had a processor fan and a fan on the back panel. I added large 120 mm fan to the side of each case. Most PCs have vent holes in the removable side of the case, and with a bit of hole matching you can bolt on a fan here and connect it to a Molex connector inside the case. If you can't find holes to match then you can always use a hot glue gun to fix it where you want it. Make sure the fan is positioned such that it doesn't touch anything inside the case or the case side isn't prevented from being placed back on by the fan interfering with something inside the case. Now this next step is important. Make sure that the new fan has the opposite function to any other existing externally facing fan in the case. If the air flow created by a fan is not obvious, then take a small peice of paper and hold it by one edge over the fan . The paper will be either sucked in or pushed away. I found that my pre-fitted rear fan pushed air into the case. I therefore set up the new fan as an extractor. This is important as the effect of this is a flow of air over the internal components. It does not matter if the air outside is hot, the action of the air movement will drop the temperature of the components in the case. Having added the fans as described above, I have had no issues with either PC. Link to post Share on other sites
Corsaire31 419 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 48 ° C on your CPU when running FSX ? then you're doing great, mine is usually these days between 50 and 60° C ( since I'm not OC, I have a simple Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Ventirad, which already gains 15 to 20°C compared to the standard Intel CPU fan ) Here is what Intel says on their forums : Anything from the Tcase and below will be the expected temperature of the processor in normal use, anything that doesn't stress out the processor (watching movies, burning CDs, browsing the internet, creating documents, etc.) When the processor is stressed out meaning that you are running heavy processor applications that take control of the CPU or uses it at 100% the temperature will go beyond the Tcase. It can perfectly reach 80 to 85 degrees and the processor will still be OK. Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I'm curious how you guys know the temps. Is there a software gadget that reports the various temperatures? I'm assuming you don't have a thermometer hanging in front of the exhaust vent I found this on the internet - http://openhardwaremonitor.org And this - http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html And - http://www.hwinfo.com/ And - http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/ I'm really cautious about downloading this sort of thing as these types of add-ons seem to attract an inordinate number of a$$holes who attach malware to their creations. I use a NVIDIA card (GT730). I understand that you can download something from them but haven't found it yet EDIT: Found the NVIDIA one. It sort of works. The Graphic interface is strange, it isn't properly referenced to my screen. There's a series of clickable boxes arranged in an arc but the click spots are offset approximately half the screen. Very hard to use and makes me very suspicious when the manufacturer's own software is not working. The NVIDIA card seems to work fine. I think I'll give their support laddies a ring and see what they say. EDIT #2: The lads at NVIDIA got back to me to suggest that it is (somehow) a corrupted download and/or install causing the problems. Then they directed me to this site: http://gaming.msi.com/features/afterburner- There's some really cool stuff there including a bunch of overclocking software (all free). Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 My Motherboard came with some Asus software that seems to monitor everything.. I always go for more PSU than you need.. it is something people do penny pinch on.. I was more concerned with safe temp for mobo but gave it a good clean and dropped a bit... Typical UK though only stayed hot for a short while.. Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 March I have CPUID too... Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Go get a freeware app called Speccy. Mutley put me on to it and it's pretty magic. Shows CPU and GPU temps and lots of other things. John Link to post Share on other sites
Quickmarch 488 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thanks JA, got it and it works a treat. I've used their CCleaner for a long time. Don't know how I missed Speccy. Link to post Share on other sites
Corsaire31 419 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I've been using another freeware called Open Hardware Monitor for quite some time. You can select what info you want ( temperatures box, CPU, GPU, fan speeds, voltages, etc. ) You can have part of it also permanently on your desktop as a gadget. Edit : oops, sorry I didn't see it was already mentioned in Quickmarch's post... Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 My latest case has a small very thin flat sensor that sits between the CPU and the clamped on cooling unit. It uses this to get a very accurate measure of the CPU temperature. EDIT: I have just downloaded Speccy. It a great tool and will be featuring on all my PCs now! Thanks John. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Doesn't the CPU monitor and report it's own temperature? Isn't that how things like Speccy work? John Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I think you are correct John. Its used as a safety valve. It the system gets too hot, it knows when to shut its self down, Usually just before you save that important bit of work. Link to post Share on other sites
allardjd 1,853 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Don't some of the CPUs do that in stages, essentially running to a slower clock when the temperatures rise to a certain level? If that's not enough, I know they will auto-shut down but I thought there were some earlier stages where it would try to reduce heat by reducing speed/load. I could be all wet on that but understood that to be the case. John Link to post Share on other sites
J G 927 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 You could be right John, although I don't know for sure. My wife and youngest have been moaning about the internet slowing down in this hot weather on their laptops, my desktops have been fine. so maybe that is the cause. Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Seems appropriate to ask in the summer. I have big cooler on CPU and that usually stays below 48...motherboard sneaking up a little lately only 40 but I was wondering if the enviroment is hot what do you guys do... I have lots of vents and built in cooling but if the room is hot it will only draw in warm air so what are the options.. Cool fan aimed at vents? Windows open to allow warm air to escape? Fan near rear of tower to push expelled air away? I have no issues but just curious to see what you do if your PC is in a room etc that gets quite hot.... Wayne With air cooling, or all in one water coolers, or full blown water cooling loops, you are limited by ambient temperature. Unless of course you go nuts and run the water from your loop through one of the freezers available, or opt for a Tec/Peltier. When we compare CPU cooler efficiency, we look at delta temperature. Delta temperature is the number of degrees above ambient temperature. If you have an overclocked CPU that runs at 75 degrees under load at 20c ambient, then it will run at 95c if the ambient climbs to 40c, and the CPU, dependant on model, will throttle back and then shut down when it reaches TJ max. Removing the side panel and aiming fans at your components and all the other makeshift means adopted in a panic are of limited use. The key is to make sure when you initially set up your PC cooling and overclock, that you take into consideration the maximum temperature you are likely to see in the height of the summer. Make sure that under these conditions the PC's components are within acceptable temperatures. Generally speaking you should make sure that your CPU stays below 80 degrees core temp [not CPU temp - CPU temp and core temp are different] during the hottest time of the year. If your system isn't overclocked, and just runs at stock speeds, then it's extremely unlikely you will have an issue and anyone panicking is probably doing so needlessly. If your enclosure is reasonably well cooled, you should be well under the components max recommended temps, even on a sweltering day. It's always a temptation to overclock like a mad thing during cooler weather and feel safe in the knowledge that you are just under max recommended temps. That's fine if you are an enthusiast who's aware of the dangers and prepared to clock back when required. For the rest of us, it makes more sense to allow for the odd occasion, the occasional heat wave. Link to post Share on other sites
wain 879 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 cheers Martin, very useful, I am not OC in anyway so should be ok, its now gone back to typical uk weather to.. Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
MartinW 0 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Don't some of the CPUs do that in stages, essentially running to a slower clock when the temperatures rise to a certain level? If that's not enough, I know they will auto-shut down but I thought there were some earlier stages where it would try to reduce heat by reducing speed/load. I could be all wet on that but understood that to be the case. John All modern CPU's do. Dependant on the CPU, above about 95 degrees, it will throttle back to avoid damage. When the CPU reaches TJ Max [TJunction Max] it will shut down to prevent damage. TJ max for my 3770k for example is 105 degrees. That's Based on core temperature, not CPU temperature. Some utilities measure CPU temp. For the enthusiast, always rely on core temp, RealTemp or CoreTemp are the temp measuring utilities preferred. Link to post Share on other sites
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